We're The Centrists Now

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Other Politics
Posted on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:17:17 PM EST
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I have always called my self a "Centrist." What does that mean actually? Well nothing really. But it is valuable politically.

We Democrats are "the Centrists" now I am happy to say. Chris Bowers is not:

Pew recently releases a much-discussed survey arguing that, despite massive partisan gains for Democrats, the ideological balance of the country has not shifted much. . . . This finding needs to be disputed . . .

I disagree. This finding needs to be embraced. I think we should argue that the country chose "Centrism" when it chose the Democratic agenda. More . . .

Chris writes:

1. Self-identification does not mesh with policy preference Ideological self-identification does not accurately place Americans into categories representing coherent worldviews. This is a point that the Pew survey itself makes, though it has received less attention than the topline numbers:

Still, ideological labels do not always predict opinions about key policy issues. For example, about half of Americans who describe their political views as conservative say that all (24%) or some (27%) of the tax cuts passed under George W. Bush should be repealed. More than four-in-ten conservatives (43%) say that abortion should be legal in some or all cases. On the other hand, nearly half of self-described liberals (49%) favor more offshore drilling for oil and gas in U.S. waters.

Just because someone describes him or herself as a liberal, moderate or a conservative, does not mean that person actually is a liberal, a moderate or a conservative.

Chris misses the point I think. "Moderate" now means Democrat on the issues and at the voting booth. This is a good thing. I will drag out my old saw from my first Talk Left post in 2006:

And that is FDR's lesson for Obama. Politics is not a battle for the middle. It is a battle for defining the terms of the political debate. It is a battle to be able to say what is the middle.

The Democratic agenda is the middle. We won.

Speaking for me only

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We're The Centrists Now | 42 comments (42 topical)

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Whether or not I'm a centrist (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by joanneleon on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:56:46 PM EST

depends on where the center is.

The center is shifting left, and that's a good thing. But I still think the center is further right than it was before the Reagan era.

I don't know what I am anymore. I'm a hybrid of some sort. But I believe I'm still left of the current center on almost everything.

The Reagan Era ended 20 years ago. To the extent (5.00 / 2) (#9)
by Don in Seattle on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 07:23:45 PM EST

that the Reagan Era has had a lasting influence, it is due to Reagan's ability to smilingly, non-threateningly redefine "the center" in his own terms.

If I read him correctly, BTD is saying Obama and his supporters can and should claim this "winner's prerogative" for himself and themselves -- for ourselves, that is.


You got it (none / 0) (#10)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 07:31:20 PM EST

Words have meaning (none / 0) (#27)
by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 09:09:52 AM EST

The center is the center. At 52%, garnered through many votes that would otherwise have gone to the Right, I don't think the country has moved.

As proof, I offer the success, if you want to call it that, of Prop 8 in California and the failure of every so-called environmental proposition in California.

This election was about the man, not the party or the policies.


Say what? (5.00 / 0) (#38)
by Don in Seattle on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 11:31:07 AM EST

So now Obama's majority doesn't count, because he got "many votes that would otherwise have gone to the Right"??

Here's news: Every mandate consists entirely of votes that would have gone somewhere else, if they hadn't gone where they did in fact go.

The question isn't really how far the country has moved away from conservatism. It is the pragmatic question of whether the left can govern more effectively by co-opting the center, and if so, whether we want to.


Nope I didn't say that (none / 0) (#40)
by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 02:11:10 PM EST

My point is that the country's "center" has not been magically moved, which you seem to agree with:

It is the pragmatic question of whether the left can govern more effectively by co-opting the center

I mean if it had been moved there is no need to co-opt.

And 2% is not a mandate, despite what you may think.

And no, the electoral college results can only be used for election, not claiming a royal or God like position... at least no more than has already claimed by Obama's minions.


: Co-opting the center -- Claiming the center -- (none / 0) (#49)
by Don in Seattle on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 02:53:28 PM EST

... it's semantics. I suppose "claiming the center" is a better summary of what BTD is suggesting.
For the record:
Obama's electoral margin over McCain was 7% (52.8% to 45.8%), not 2%. Obama got a larger share of the national vote than Reagan did in 1980 (50.7%), and Reagan's margin over Carter was less than 10%. If Reagan's 50.7% was a mandate, why exactly is Obama's 52.8% not?
I didn't say one word about the Electoral College. As far as "claiming a royal or God-like position," I have absolutely no idea what you're going on about.
No one here is saying that the country's political center has "magically" moved. I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth by saying your position is that the country's political center is "magically" set in stone.
I would argue that this year the center shifted noticeably away from conservatism, for good muggle reasons: because Republicans have proven pathetically ineffective in dealing with a host of problems (Katrina, Iraq, and the economic crisis, to name just three).

Who can forget (none / 0) (#50)
by jondee on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 03:08:46 PM EST

privitize-privitize-privitize and gut govt followed closely by the massive threat of "terror" to infrastructre and the current intervention-inducing economic crisis?

The farsightedness of the conservative true believer has certainly been vindicated in the last 8 years.


: Im still trying to (none / 0) (#51)
by jondee on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 03:38:28 PM EST

figure out what-the-eff it is that they want to "conserve".

yadda yadda (none / 0) (#31)
by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 09:41:34 AM EST

I forgot to mention that getting only 52% against a very old candidate with the economy falling apart is hardly a signal that the earth has moved.

You do remember, don't you, that McCain was ahead, or the race was tied, until the economy did its swan dive.

The public bought the image that Obama could fix things. That he didn't try and most likely can't went over their heads.

The country is center right.

One swallow a summer does not make....to paraphrase an old Greek.


: yadda yadda (none / 0) (#39)
by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 01:57:59 PM EST

The election (5.00 / 1) (#19)
by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 11:10:14 PM EST

was a referendum on Bush.

People hate Bush and ran as far and as fast as they could away from Bush.

I don't think this election was a referendum on much else. If Bush had been a Democrat, the Republicans would have won.

Bush, (none / 0) (#23)
by cal1942 on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 12:24:30 AM EST

whether people cared to make the connection or not is the symbol of 'modern' Republicanism.

My independent voting cousin told me: "I am sick and tired of Republicans."

He voted straight Democratic.

Most voters knew what party was in charge and rejected that party, it wasn't just Bush.


Yet Congress has much lower (none / 0) (#28)
by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 09:12:38 AM EST

approval ratings.

Why did the Demos increase their lead?


Possible (none / 0) (#32)
by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 09:42:58 AM EST

Are you saying Franken will steal MN?


: yadda yadda (none / 0) (#42)
by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 02:14:50 PM EST

Your ability to claim the obvious is well known.

Because anyone (none / 0) (#45)
by jondee on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 02:23:24 PM EST

who stumped for that lame duck leper and his merry band of regime change eff ups has become tainted in the eyes of the electorate.

As if anyone needed to explain that to you.


so if we're the Centrists now (5.00 / 1) (#37)
by lilburro on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 10:28:32 AM EST

and we don't get what we want, does that make our government Right Wing regardless of how we vote?

I want to see some of this "centrist" legislation passed.

I used to think of myself as (none / 0) (#1)
by Left of center on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:26:50 PM EST

ultra liberal, till the far left Clinton haters pushed me towards the center.

: Sheesh! Does EVERY single story come down to (5.00 / 3) (#2)
by Don in Seattle on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:38:32 PM EST

"Clinton hatred" or "CDS"? (BTD's story didn't even mention either Clinton.)

We have no won anything but we are (none / 0) (#3)
by JSN on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:39:13 PM EST

in a better position to build coalitions and win in the future.

I'm afraid you're correct. Harry (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 07:23:05 PM EST

Reid says he doesn't have the votes for Big 3 bailout.


And your point is...? (none / 0) (#11)
by Don in Seattle on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 07:32:01 PM EST

That if Obama had won a real mandate, there would exist plenty of votes for an auto industry bailout?

I didn't think I was voting for that.


Speaking for me only (none / 0) (#12)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 07:38:55 PM EST

I do not hink she was referencing Obama at all, but she can speak for herself.

FWIW, I agree with your observation.


It's all Michael Moore's fault. He (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by oculus on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 07:45:49 PM EST

says no bailout. Obama did say we can't let the jobs dependent on the Big 3 evaporate.

I think it is the fault of Congress and the Executive Branch who buckled so many years to the pleas of the auto industry lobbyist: please don't force us to make fuel-efficient cars. That is not what the public wants to buy.


John Dingell et al. (none / 0) (#14)
by coigue on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 08:19:51 PM EST

The Democrats shame.


This is absurd (none / 0) (#17)
by Steve M on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 09:48:04 PM EST

the Democrats appear to have the votes for a stimulus package, but at the same time they're prepared to let a million+ jobs evaporate. Is that good public policy?


: Certainly not (5.00 / 2) (#20)
by cal1942 on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 12:04:24 AM EST

good public policy. Letting a major industry vanish will be yet another step in making us history's biggest joke.
It appears to me that many so called liberals who oppose keeping the auto industry simply hold a grudge against that industry or, still more lame, simply don't like their product.
I wonder if these people understand that their opposition so often sounds like what we'd expect from laissez faire paleo-conservatives.
The next Congress convenes on the 2nd or 5th I think. We'll see then.
I know that I didn't vote for irresponsible government. I voted for a government that would build the nation not tear it down.

: Spoken like a true Michigander. (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by oculus on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 12:36:19 AM EST

Reid says: Mr. President, why don't you spend some of the bail out Congress already gave you on the Big 3. Perino says: let's wait and see if Congress bails out the Big 3.

BTD (none / 0) (#4)
by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:41:46 PM EST

Centrist has a meaning.

To claim you are one when you admit you are not..

What would you call that?

: I think he would call it 'shifting the center'. (5.00 / 1) (#5)
by Don in Seattle on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:46:14 PM EST

: I admitted I am not? (5.00 / 1) (#6)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:49:06 PM EST

I think I said today we Democrats are the Center.

The Right is the Center (none / 0) (#15)
by downtownted on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 08:41:55 PM EST

I am sorry I am coming late to this post. The issue isn't who is the Center. The issue is where is the Center. If the Center is what normal people would consider far RIGHT, how can you be happy by crying you are the Center.

The Right has fought and won this battle. If the Center is dominated by a right wing ideologue, the Right wing folks have won the battle because they have defined the ground that Americans accept as the Center.

Today Justice Anthony Kennedy is the CENTER. Think about what that means. Think about how progressives have had their clock's cleaned. Justice Anthony Kennedy is the Center.

And you say you are now the Center. WOW! What a victory for you

Did (none / 0) (#21)
by cal1942 on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 12:08:54 AM EST

you miss the election? There was one held on November 4th of this year.


There is an old Chicago saying (none / 0) (#26)
by downtownted on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 08:12:31 AM EST

I wish I could have followed and that was to vote early AND often.

If I understand your response it is that after the election America has moved left from the Bush administration. I concede that and I think it is wonderful.

But the Bushies were nowhere near the center. Everywhere you look this administration is at the extreme edge. From the regulatory changes they have put in action (the FDA from day has argued, in a regulatory preamble that never allowed for comments, that final decisions by it on drugs preempted states from protecting their citizens when the drugs killed or injured, the coming changes in worker safety, etc.) through the start of the Iraq invasion; through Gitmo; on to the erosion of your protection by the Bill of Rights. And they have put political folk in charge throughout the bureaucracy who are like minded in pushing these changes. Lot more to write about this but you get my drift.

Kennedy succeeded Sandra Day O'Connor, a very conservative lady herself, as the center. O'Connor retired in 2006 and was replaced by the more conservative Samuel Alito. Clearly the Bushies are far, far to the right of where this center is. But this center has moved very far to the right in a relative short 20 years and the right is now the driving force in defining where the CENTER is.

My point was that who wants to stay at this Center is far to the right of where I want to be.


: The center (none / 0) (#52)
by cal1942 on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 09:44:11 PM EST

is about what government will be. In the Reagan years conservatives, who by and large dominated government for the next two plus decades, tried to change what government would be. This election has now changed that.
I believe you're confused about what "the center" means.

Pew is off (none / 0) (#16)
by koshembos on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 09:19:47 PM EST

Most people are neither right, left nor center. They are apolitical. People want the economy to work well, to have a future for their kids, enjoy decent health care, etc.

Most people are way too busy to spend time on informing themselves. As result they'll pick up the most noisy or the most visible ideas. They were against universal health care because the noise machine convinced them that they'll lose their physician.

To claim, therefore, that the country is centrist is to run surveys that provide temporary snapshot of questionable value.

Party registration is a much better indication. In other word, the country is left of center.

Which is now the new center. (5.00 / 1) (#18)
by oldpro on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 10:38:20 PM EST

Because we won and because we say so.

Game over.


Yes (5.00 / 1) (#22)
by cal1942 on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 12:14:35 AM EST

we reestablished the center. The center is what government will do or be.

In this election people voted for a candidate who ran on a platform of activist government.

Exit polls confirmed that sentiment.


So you place the government at the (none / 0) (#33)
by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 09:45:12 AM EST

center of everything.

I can see why a Leftist would say that. But does it define you?

The center is what government will do or be.

: "Speak for yourself, John." (none / 0) (#41)
by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 02:13:08 PM EST

Practical (none / 0) (#25)
by nellre on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 03:38:27 AM EST

That our leaders could be herded into actions driven by these polls is part of what is wrong with this country at this point in time.

So many are dis-mis informed. We can't be trusted!