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Friday Afternoon Open Thread

Your daily dose of non-news on Percy Harvin. Nothing new on Florida all purpose star Percy Harvin's status for the SEC championship game. We'll have to wait until 4 pm Saturday to find out it looks like.

This is an Open Thread.

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    I thought this was funny (5.00 / 7) (#1)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 01:22:33 PM EST
    Barney Frank has "post-partisan depression"

    Barney, Barney, Barney (5.00 / 7) (#30)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 03:21:50 PM EST
    I loved this:

    "At a time of great crisis with mortgage foreclosures and autos, he says we only have one president at a time," Frank said. "I'm afraid that overstates the number of presidents we have. He's got to remedy that situation."

    Parent

    A full page advertisement in the NYTimes (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by KeysDan on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 04:26:26 PM EST
    by a project of the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty (nomobveto.org) expresses its outrage for "violence and intimidation" directed at the Mormon Church and other religious organizations, and even against individual believers, simply  because they supported California Proposition 8.  The violence, they claim, is being stoked by public statements denouncing LDS, although they recognize that when religious organizations enter the public policy area, it must be prepared for disputes.  While all agree that violence is inexcusable, they seem to ignore that their anti-gay statements have historically stoked violence against gay men and women.  Moreover, their outrage for intimidation seems to be a one-way street as well, for they conclude their advertisement by stating "beginning today, we commit ourselves to exposing and publicly shaming anyone who resorts to the rhetoric of anti-religious bigotry--against any faith;on any side of any cause, for any reason."

    Oh dear. (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Fabian on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 04:48:10 PM EST
    I'm shaking in my booties!

    not.

    Money talks.  And those millions of dollars said a lot and it wasn't "Love your neighbor as yourself.".

    Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.  (not a bible quote AFAIK)

    Parent

    Thanks for the genuinenly funny Barney Frankisms (5.00 / 4) (#114)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:23:29 AM EST
    Sorry to harsh the mellow, but looking around the web tonight, it seems like a lot of folks are having a hoot over the party pictures of Obama's speechwriter (Jon Favreau) and his pals, molesting a cardboard cutout of Hillary Clinton.

    However, it was quite heartening to find this insightful comment from jstcnw at nbcnewschicago.com:

    "Just replace the Hillary cutout with one of Michelle Obama and see if it's still funny."

    When Michelle Obama enters the picture, it kind of makes one cringe to even read the words; and it becomes unconscionable to imagine seeing the depraved scenario, everywhere, in living color.

    It's to bad that ritual abuse of Hillary Clinton often doesn't become fully apparent until we put another person in her shoes. Such is the blinding toxicity of CDS.

    Parent

    Sounds like CDDS... (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 08:54:04 AM EST
    it was a piece of cardboard for christ's sake.

    Don't tell me I'm the only one who has seen the "getting lewd with a cardboard cutout" joke before at an alcohol-fueled party.  Granted, usually it's a cardboard cut-out of Kathy Ireland used to advertise beer, but still...it's the oldest gag in the book.

    Was Mike Damone abusing the mannequin in "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" trying to teach Mark Ratner a few moves?  Seriously...

    Parent

    OK then, you'd still have no problem (none / 0) (#126)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 01:03:15 PM EST
    with this "joke" if it were a cutout of Michelle Obama and those photos were plastered all over the universe?

    I don't want to get into any kind of dust-up here; I'm just asking.

    Parent

    Exactly (none / 0) (#128)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 01:14:58 PM EST
    Big deal. I do not see this as sexist, wouldn't matter if guys from HRC campaign did the same to an Obama or Michele cutout.

    If anything it is a victory lap, gender is irrelevant.

    Parent

    Didn't say the cutout grope is "sexist" (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:21:07 PM EST
    Nor did I say it isn't. My point goes beyond that.

    I am asking if it would still be no "big deal" if it were a cutout of Michelle Obama - being danced around and felt-up by Hillary's chief speech writer and his drunken buddies?

    Would it be no "big deal" if some McCain supporters threw a frat party and got their rocks off on a cutout of Barack Obama? No telling what those pictures would look like. But I'm sure they wouldn't be laughed off because the boys were merely abusing a cutout rather than the real Obama.

    Parent

    Doesn't Matter (none / 0) (#136)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:37:51 PM EST
    IMO. A cutout of anyone could be trampled over, and spat on for all I care.

    Now if Nazi signs were drawn on it or kill all women, or nooses that would be a different story, imo. Then it moves from dumping on the individual's image in question to the individual being representative of all like him or her.

    Parent

    She is a representative of all like her. (5.00 / 4) (#139)
    by Teresa on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:41:19 PM EST
    Most women in the workforce have been groped Squeaky.

    We aren't asking that they be arrested for a hate crime, just that they act like they belong in the White House, not Animal House.

    I'll bet you anything that Obama is pissed at them.

    Parent

    It Is About Hillary (none / 0) (#141)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:46:23 PM EST
    Not all women, and it is not Hillary but a symbol of her, a picture.

    If these characters are going around groping women in the workplace they should be tried and convicted of assault.

    There is zero relation to that in this case. A non sequitur.

    For instance, I have jumped up and down on top of a male picture of someone that I detest. I have never jumped up and down on top of a real person's head, and never will. Nor does this have anything to do with how I feel about  men in general.

    Parent

    Have you ever jumped up and down (5.00 / 4) (#142)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 03:34:48 PM EST
    the photo of a recent appointee to the administration to whom you have just been appointed chief speechwriter?

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#147)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 07:07:10 PM EST
    But I could see someone doing it out of frustration and venting anger. That would be specific venting toward the appointee. Silly to assume it is a hate act toward all appointees.

    Parent
    I certainly agree it was a venting (5.00 / 3) (#149)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 08:00:06 PM EST
    aimed only at Hillary Clinton, not that makes Favreau's behavior the least bit acceptable to me.  I don't want him behind the Obama curtain.  Period.

    Parent
    a cutout/effigy of Hillary, or Michelle, or Barack as "individuals"?

    As far as you're concerned, their images can be "trampled over and spat on", p*ssed on, humped and groped, set on fire; and it would still be silly for any group to think it is an insult to them as a whole.  

    You're proposing that there is no implicit insult to all women, or people of color, or any other demographic unless there are explicit:

    "nazi signs, or nooses, or a kill all women [slogan]".

    Speaking for myself only, I don't need that much information.

    Parent

    Yes, No Big Deal (none / 0) (#144)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 03:59:26 PM EST
    Even healthy. I guess hillary cultists would be mad, just as a football team would be mad if the other team defiled a cutout of their quaterback.

    Anyone and everyone is entitled to get mad about the frat heads defiling Hilary, that doesn't make it sexist. It is about Hillary not all women.

    Did it bother you that effigies of Bush were burned in Iraq, also at war protests. Does that mean everyone involved hates men and that was sexist?

    Parent

    Squeaky, you're the one who keeps (5.00 / 3) (#145)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 04:39:46 PM EST
    saying "sexist", not me. I think the incident goes well beyond that construct, as I've tried to convey.

    Note: many commenters have said they believe it is an insult to women as a whole, and I am in agreement. If a critical mass of women share this opinion, doesn't that put the question to rest?

    BTW, I am not bothered by burning effigies of Bush. That is clearly a condemnation of Bush and his actions in office. It would be perverse to argue it is a condemnation of "all men", especially since so many are also anti-Bush.


    Parent

    Huh? (none / 0) (#146)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 07:04:42 PM EST
    Squeaky, you're the one who keeps saying "sexist", not me.

    Well you are saying it here:

    Note: many commenters have said they believe it is an insult to women as a whole, and I am in agreement.

    That is called sexism.

    BTW, I am not bothered by burning effigies of Bush. That is clearly a condemnation of Bush and his actions in office. It would be perverse to argue it is a condemnation of "all men", especially since so many are also anti-Bush.

    You sound like a hypocrite here. Hillary represents all women but Bush does not represent all men?????

    Magical thinking here.


    Parent

    You can call it "sexism" if you want... (5.00 / 2) (#148)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 07:37:12 PM EST
    It's not the word I use, because I think it doesn't adequately describe the full hideousness of this particular incident and others of its kind.

    By the way, "hypocrite" is the least of the very derogatory things you've called me here in the past two days. I can't foresee a change for the better, so consider this my last response to you.

    Parent

    Hideous (none / 0) (#150)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 08:30:45 PM EST
    Yes I think that you could get your hand chopped off for less in some countries. Lobby your legislator to criminalize this hideous act.

    The anti hideous defilation of US leaders law. A fatwa against those who dare to make a mockery of our leaders.

    Or should the law just be specific to Hillary?

    Go for it. Seems to suit you and your sense of outrage.

    Parent

    Victory lap? Squeaky, this is a (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by Teresa on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:28:23 PM EST
    recent photo. The primary ended in the first week of June. If it had happened during the primary, I might cut them a little slack because emotions were running so high, but even then it wasn't right.

    This is a woman they knew their boss was getting ready to appoint SoS. They behaved like college kids, not representatives of our new President.

    And it sure as hell is sexist. Would they have grabbed the crotch of John McCain?

    Parent

    Why Not (none / 0) (#135)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:33:56 PM EST
    Are you sexist, many would love to grab the crotch of a cutout of McCain, Bush, and Cheney. Next would be to skewer it and throw it on a bonfire.

    Is that sexist too.?

    Parent

    That would be justice :) (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by Teresa on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:38:01 PM EST
    lol (none / 0) (#138)
    by squeaky on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:39:31 PM EST
    From The Frat House to the White House (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by mudlark on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 06:51:51 PM EST
    Check this out.

    Obama's speechwriter gropes HRC cardboard cutout (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 08:28:44 PM EST
    Wow...this picture (via WaPo) just about says it all.

    Obama's 27 year old, newly appointed chief speechwriter, Jon Favreau at a recent party; photographed beside a life-size cardboard cutout of SoS designate, Hillary Clinton, leering and groping her breast. Favreau is accompanied by a buddy, who's wearing an "OBAMA STAFF" T-shirt, while standing on the other side of the Hillary cutout. He's kissing her cheek, pulling at the top of her head and making like he's pouring beer down her throat.

    Apparently, there are other pictures where Favreau and the boys are dancing and clowning around with the Hillary cutout. Does anybody doubt that we've not seen the worse of these pictures?

    Here's an excerpt from the WaPo story:

    Asked about the photos, Favreau...declined comment. A transition official said that Favreau had "reached out to Senator Clinton to offer an apology."Clinton senior adviser Philippe Reines cast the photos as evidence of increased bonhomie between the formerly rival camps. "Senator Clinton is pleased to learn of Jon's obvious interest in the State Department, and is currently reviewing his application," he said in an e-mail.

    I doubt that Hillary has any choice but to be 'good-humored' about this degradation in effigy. However, Obama does have a choice and he should oust this Favreau hooligan ASAP.

    Here's a hypothetical analogy: what if President-Elect Hillary Clinton was confronted with photos that documented similarly demeaning behavior toward an effigy of SoS designate Barack Obama. The offender would be gone in a New York minute.

    Time to man-up Obama, show us you're better than your boys. Let's be done, once and for all, with frat boy antics like "99 Problems but a B*tch Ain't One".

    Parent

    BBC World, broadcast on (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 08:38:19 PM EST
    local NPR stations, ran a rant tonight against both Clintons by some name Justin Webb. No rebuttal.  It ain't over.

    Parent
    Webb is BBC's North (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 08:44:03 PM EST
    American Editor.

    Parent
    Even more unconscionable, imo. nt. (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by sallywally on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 09:50:13 PM EST
    Have any of the TV 'news' people picked up (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 08:44:15 PM EST
    on this Frat-Gate story?

    I mean, it's such an appallingly lurid visual and they live for this stuff. But maybe not so much - if it reflects badly on Obama's and/or his associates.

    Parent

    Prominently displayed (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 08:45:54 PM EST
    on Huff Post.

    Parent
    I suppose (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 08:54:16 PM EST
    it's there so the cesspool of commenters there can giggle about it?

    Parent
    Don't know about the comments, as (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 08:56:12 PM EST
    I never read them.  Not too surprising--the same photo and information appears on the BBC website under "Justin Webb."  

    Parent
    Yeah, I've seen the photo (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 08:57:05 PM EST
    in a number of places online today.

    My jaw dropped and my stomach turned. But, I skipped past it, assuming it was just a bunch of bad-boy yahoos doing what they do.

    I didn't realize it had anything to do with an Obama appointee until I linked to it here on this thread. Now, the mouth hangeth open.

    Still wondering if it's hit the TV 'news' yet.

    Parent

    And CNN, although the (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 09:17:13 PM EST
    headline implies its Clinton's fault.

    CNN

    Parent

    CNN is not going with a 'Grope-Gate' headline (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 09:27:13 PM EST
    Ya can't make this stuff up. Thanks for finding it for us.

    So here is that CNN headline (they did it in big bold font):

    Clinton changes her tune on sexism. Sexism or 'good-natured fun'? Campbell Brown calls out Hillary Clinton for her response to a photo of an Obama aide groping a cardboard cutout of her.


    Parent
    Good grief. It's still all Hillary's fault. (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by Teresa on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 09:41:36 PM EST
    IACF? Is that what it was called?

    She was probably disgusted with it, but what would the reaction be if she blasted him for it? This isn't her battle to fight - Obama needs to be the one to speak about it if the media wants to make a big deal about it.

    This is so frustrating. I think that Obama showed how much respect she deserves by his appointment and it ticks me off that people from his campaign would act this way. This is a recent photo, not even from the campaign (not that that would make it ok).

    Parent

    Ah, IACF: It's Always Clinton's Fault (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:18:29 PM EST
    jeez, what a jerk (brown) (5.00 / 3) (#152)
    by sallywally on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 09:53:49 PM EST
    CNN advertises her show as 'no bias.'

    Parent
    Campbell Brown led off with it (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by nycstray on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 09:13:53 PM EST
    and took Hillary to task for the comments her "person" made. Kinda "why is this now ok when during the campaign it wasn't" and "how Hillary was speaking for all women during the campaign and now? Blah, blah, blah . . . "

    I swear, I need to remove CNN (and a few other channels) so when I'm clicking around I don't hit the drivel. My new TV might make it through it's first year then. At least the odds would increase, lol!~

    Parent

    Too bad BTD is immersed in (5.00 / 4) (#68)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 09:19:33 PM EST
    Gatordom.  It would make me feel better if he would really skewer this guy and demand Obama remove him from his new position at the White House.

    Parent
    I'm refraining from sending an earful (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by nycstray on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:40:16 PM EST
    to Obama at the moment. And Campbell doesn't have commenting available on her little piece, which I was hoping to do an initial vent on. . .

    I really feel this is something Obama needs to speak on. I don't really think Hillary is in a position to publicly call out the little SOB.

    BTD, turn off that football please! We need you*  :)

    *yes, it would make me feel better also. Sexism is beginning to feel a bit like Groundhog's Day to me . . .

    Parent

    I hope BTD will spank Jon Favreau (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 12:00:31 AM EST
    and his buddies for their party stylings. But, he just might go the contrary way and suggest that if it's OK with Hillary we ought to be OK with it too.

    I'm looking forward to his weigh-in and Jeralyn's input.

    Parent

    Words fail. (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 08:41:57 PM EST
    so so depressing.

    Parent
    What in particular Doc? (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 08:47:17 PM EST
    Hope you regain your words imminently.

    Parent
    I can't talk about it anymore (5.00 / 4) (#58)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 08:52:53 PM EST
    So so weary of it, and so so weary of how inured everyone is to it.

    (But thanks for talking about it.)

    Parent

    OK, for now... (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 09:06:51 PM EST
    I was just wondering if it generally had anything to do with ye olde misogyny.

    Fun trivia (at least to me): when I'm about to write that word I always think it's got more than one "o". I remind myself of the correct spelling by thinking of "miso" as in soup; and then "gyny".

    No need to reply. We (the royal "we") will miss you.

    Parent

    This is the wunderkind NYT (none / 0) (#63)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 09:07:38 PM EST
    profiled last January:

    NYT


    Parent

    Favreau became Obama's speechwriter in '05 (none / 0) (#77)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:15:12 PM EST
    Today Favreau was being called the "newly appointed White House chief speechwriter". I guess the new part is that he's going to the White House with Obama, who he's been with for 3 years.

    Given today's events, Favreau's NYTimes profile (01/20/08) has a perversely serendipitous headline: What Would Obama Say? (Maybe Favreau is writing something for Obama to say about Favreau's groping incident as we speak.)

    The Times profile is glowing, literally: Favreau's face is bathed in light from his computer screen:

    Mr. Favreau, or Favs, as everyone calls him, looks every bit his age [26], with a baby face and closely shorn stubble. And he leads a team of two other young speechwriters: 26-year-old Adam Frankel and Ben Rhodes [who is] 30...

    I wonder if Frankel or Rhodes is in the groping picture. Continuing:

    "Barack trusts him," said David Axelrod..."And Barack doesn't trust too many folks with that -- the notion of surrendering that much authority over his own words." Mr. Favreau used time to master Mr. Obama's voice. "The trick of speechwriting, if you will, is making the client say your brilliant words while somehow managing to make it sound as though they issued straight from their own soul," said the writer Christopher Buckley.


    Parent
    Anyway (none / 0) (#95)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:05:00 PM EST
    What can I say? Hillary's just hot.

    Parent
    Obama campaign mulls what to do with $30M surplus (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by nycstray on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 07:41:08 PM EST
    From the dept of "Why the F*** do they keep asking me for money?!"
    WASHINGTON - Democrats carrying significant campaign debt after winning a string of House and Senate races are grumbling about President-elect Barack Obama's financial reserves, saying the party's leader is sitting on a pile of cash while Democratic leaders are broke.

    Obama's organization retains some $30 million after his successful presidential bid, but it's unclear how the Democratic president-in-waiting might use the money. Members of his party are doing their best to appeal for the funds without appearing greedy, ungrateful or hostile to their new leader.

    ...

    Obama aides emphasize the campaign expects to continue having expenses, along with tax obligations and political operations. They also say Obama has little interest in bankrolling state committees or individual candidates. Those involved say the logical option is the Democratic National Committee, although no one is pressing for a quick transfer.

    ...


    The Democratic National Committee is carrying about $5 million in debt, with almost $12 million cash on hand. DNC officials say they expect to have the debt paid by the end of the year. The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee carries some $19 million in debt and less than $3 million on hand. The Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee is nearly $13 million in debt.

    ...

    On Wednesday, Obama send a fundraising e-mail to his supporters asking them to help retire that debt by buying coffee mugs or fleece sweat shirts. Obama and Democratic aides alike say they would use similar efforts going forward, but were aware that asking too often could dilute the effectiveness of the list.

    I thought when Obama combined with the DNC, the money was supposed to "trickle down"? And why the heck can't the DNC pay off it's debt with the $12mil? Or Obama for that matter with the 30mil? Why do we, the people, have to pick up the tab when their surplus is basically our donations (or so they say)?

    Ooops! Postin' while agitated. Link (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by nycstray on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 07:43:03 PM EST
    Hmmmm. Seems like if Obama (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 07:48:54 PM EST
    was interested in Congress bailing out or at least helping U.S. automaking industry, he has the clout to apply some pressure.

    Parent
    What to do with Obama's $30 million surplus... (5.00 / 3) (#127)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 01:07:48 PM EST
    Rehab and 'sensitivity-training' for his speech writers;-)

    Parent
    It is interesting to read about Caroline (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by Teresa on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 08:39:48 PM EST
    Kennedy being considered for the Senate. It's funny to see the anti-dynasty folks writing that in general, they are opposed to dynasties, but, in this case, she'd be a great choice.

    I just don't like hypocrites. If you all see me acting that way, whop me in the head.

    Is she being considered... (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 09:18:12 PM EST
    ...or just expressing an interest or both?  

    I don't think we have to worry about whopping you.  Did you get your snow?

    Parent

    Gov. Patterson and she are both (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 09:20:34 PM EST
    interested.

    Parent
    {sigh} (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by nycstray on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:30:33 PM EST
    I'm really not interested in her becoming our Senator. I can think of a few others who have already been actively working for the state/nation that would be good choices. If she wants to be a Senator, she can freakin' run for office like everyone else. I wasn't at all impressed with her bit of stumping for Obama.

    Parent
    If she gets appointed (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:36:58 PM EST
    she mostly likely Senator for life.

    Parent
    Yup. Hope she has some moxy (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by nycstray on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:58:36 PM EST
    and backbone if she is SFL. She doesn't really impress me as Senator material. Other areas, not a problem. I know she is/was working with our schools, but don't know what her influce was/accomplished. Klein usually gets the credit.

    Ah, well. If they give it to her, she'll only be my Senator for a short time  ;) Maybe RFKJr will influence her in some areas, which will make me happy. And perhaps she'll take some cues from Hillary and get involved with state agriculture/family farming etc. I just really don't know what her passions are and what kinda fight she has in her. I was counting on one of the "known" replacing Hillary and that we would still have a strong voice. Maybe she'll surprise me . . .

    Parent

    I read that the appointed Senator has to (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Teresa on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:03:45 PM EST
    run in a special election in 2010 and then again in 2012 when Hillary's term would have been up. That doesn't sound like Caroline's thing to me.

    She would probably be fine but I would rather have someone who has been elected to at least some office get the job. Of course, I'd love any of them over the Senators I have.

    Parent

    It's true, she would (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:10:13 PM EST
    But I mean really, who's going to beat a Kennedy in a New York Democratic primary? Bill Clinton isn't gonna try, so the answer is no one.

    And given how Democratic New York is these days, Caroline would have to be pretty inept to lose the general election. (Caveat, that sort of thing has happened recently).

    My problem is that I have no idea where she is on the issues, but my guess is that she'll be a down-the-line liberal. She'll vote how Schumer and Teddy (for as long as he lasts) tell her to vote.

    Parent

    What about Cuomo? (none / 0) (#101)
    by nycstray on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:24:59 PM EST
    Couldn't he give her a run for her money, so to speak?

    Voting down the line liberal is one thing, fighting and working for it is another. I have no idea where she is on issues either, as in which ones are her passion.

    Parent

    Cuomo, maybe (none / 0) (#102)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:26:18 PM EST
    but really, I just don't see it.

    Parent
    His ambition is why I think (none / 0) (#109)
    by nycstray on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:53:08 PM EST
    he might challenge. And he would be a more passionate (from what I've seen of both) campaigner. And he has history. Isn't he currently bustin' chops on health insurers and student loan lenders?

    Parent
    I've heard a couple references to a dbl (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by nycstray on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:15:00 PM EST
    election, but not on the local news. So I'm not sure. I thought the Gov was doing the appointment and it was a done deal, as that's what all the news talk sounds like. It may go through something like what Bloomberg did to gain the ability to run through a third term and bypass the people, or it doesn't need to go through the people?

    She would be a fund raising draw for herself and others, which [sadly] is taken into account. I dunno though, something about it just feels wrong to me.

    Parent

    This is what the AP article says... (none / 0) (#106)
    by Teresa on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:40:22 PM EST
    Whoever Paterson appoints would serve for two years and then have to run in a special election in 2010, along with Paterson and New York's senior senator, Charles Schumer. The candidate would then have to run again in 2012.



    Parent
    Ah, ok (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by nycstray on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:50:24 PM EST
    So she would be like a temp who then has to apply for the position. She can start right away, but it's not permanent.

    Ugh, that means whoever is appointed will spend the next few years campaigning? I'd feel better if they didn't have the special election and the person could just buckle down and work and we could judge them after a couple years of solid work, vs working part time while campaigning.

    Parent

    Hey, stray, (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by caseyOR on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:16:50 PM EST
    do you think Caroline would appeal to voters outside of NYC? Her campaigning for Obama was the first she's ever done. And she has never had to deal with the press and the public. Isn't New York politics a rough and tumble game? I've heard that she approached Paterson. Wonder if the idea is to try and work some "Kennedy magic"? Of course, that really hasn't worked for the cousins' generation.

    Are New Yorkers enamored of the Kennedys? I come from a long line of Kennedy lovers, but Caroline would not be my choice for senator.

    Parent

    I don't know (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by nycstray on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:45:51 PM EST
    I think some older Nyers may have fond feelings towards the family and the younger Obama voters would be on board. But even in NYC, what's her experience etc. We have some pretty outspoken and bold politicians, and then she would be replacing Hillary, who not only campaigned her heart out, but worked hard to prove herself to upstate and others. Aside from 9/11 related issues, I almost felt like Hillary wasn't so much a NYC Senator (as it was thought she would be). And that may be why they are looking for an upstater. We have (pre-Wall St fiasco) a need to create jobs upstate, the agricultural industry (Hillary's been doing Farm Days annually in DC to keep them on the radar) security and so many other issues. I just don't see Caroline in that role. We have a lot on our plate here. I'd like to see someone with more seasoning taking on the challenge*. Don't know if I'm alone in that thought. If you look at the others mentioned for the job, they all have "something" and I think they are in tune to NYers and NYS through their public service. We are tough, but fair as far as politicians go. Remains to be seen how tough she is on the front lines.

    *disclaimer: I'm a native Californian  ;)

    Parent

    According to the AP and some of her (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Teresa on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 09:23:10 PM EST
    relatives, she is very interested.

    The snow went to the mountains and upper east TN, as usual. I could see it on the mountains on my drive to work.

    How are you doing MileHi? Who are you rooting for in the games tomorrow?

    Parent

    Isn't she the one... (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 09:53:48 PM EST
    ...who reportly doesn't like the spotlight, but rather prefers the behind-the scenes stuff?

    I should have FedEx'd you some of our snow.  Very light and fluffy!  Sun came out today and melted most of it.  Still way too cold though--minus 5 for a low last night.

    Today is a good day-thanks for asking!  Is tomorrow really Saturday?  Haven't given teh feetball too much though yet.  I would like to see OK go down to Mizzu just to see the excitement that would bring.  Mostly just waiting to see who we get and where.  Hopefully, somewhere nice and warm for my cold Iowa friends.  

    Have they said if Monte Kiffen (I think that's the Dad) is coming to join the staff or not?

    Parent

    I'm 100% sure that Monte is coming. His wife (none / 0) (#78)
    by Teresa on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:18:25 PM EST
    was supposedly with Mrs. Kiffin Jr looking at houses. It's kind of strange because our defense was a top ten defense and we are getting all new defensive coaches. The only ones retained (at least for now to help recruit) are all from our offensive offense!

    Send the snow! I am going to see snow this year if I have to drive to the mountains. I am about 45 minutes northeast of where the snow hits the mountains.

    I also hope the winners tomorrow turn the BCS upside down. I guess I will root for the Gators for BTD but lately, it seems everything around me is falling apart so that might not be in his best interests. :)

    Parent

    He did promise... (none / 0) (#100)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:24:21 PM EST
    ...that he'd be rioting in the streets if Florida lost, didn't he?  That could be somewhat interesting.

    The talk I've been hearing is that Monte is coming in as the mentor so son can grow into the position.  That seemed a bit strange for a big time program.  But if it works...

    Here's hoping the world around you pulls itself together soon!

    Parent

    Not rioting, an all night Rocky Top singing :) (none / 0) (#104)
    by Teresa on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:36:17 PM EST
    He is a tireless recruiter so it will be fun to watch. I'm such a bleeding heart that right now I still have mixed feelings about it. The SEC is going to be different next year for sure. I'm hoping he can out-arrogant Urban at least! Or maybe Saban. I can't decide which one of them is the most arrogant.

    Thanks for the good wishes. There are so many people worse off than me. It's the first time I have seen people I know lose their jobs (or been a part of it) and it makes this mess very real to me.

    Parent

    Oops, sorry. You were talking about BTD's (none / 0) (#105)
    by Teresa on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:38:16 PM EST
    comment and I thought you were talking about Lane Kiffin's. Yes, BTD will flip out if Florida wins and they don't go. I think it is a possibility.

    Parent
    Well, it was pretty late... (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 10:39:44 AM EST
    ...hard to say what the heck I was really talking about! :)

    If BTD flips out, will anyone be able to tell a difference?  

    I've been laid-off/"downsized" twice (by the same Co. even) and it is scary as heck. I've also had to let people go and that was exteremely hard--especially when one has compassion and empathy for the plight of others.  Not easy no matter what side of the fence you're on.

    Sometimes all a person can do is when the world throws them a curve is to keep their head held high, their faith in their own abilities and worth strong, focus on the things they can control and believe that things will work out for the best in the long run.  

    I'll be rooting for the best for you.

    Parent

    Funny MileHi (none / 0) (#124)
    by Teresa on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 12:03:40 PM EST
    If BTD flips out, will anyone be able to tell a difference?  

    When I was following all those links in your comment about DK, I came across an old comment of his and wow what a difference. I love both BTD's though. I think TL is a much healthier place for him.

    My soon to be ex-boss has no compassion. He told me he is closing the plant for the week of Christmas and that he's going to encourage the ones who took the massive pay cuts to not used any vacation time. He said the "value" of their paid time off is so much lower now and they should wait until we hopefully move their pay back.

    I can't believe he doesn't understand. One of the men is 54 years old with a wife on a lot of medication and he dropped his health insurance last Monday because he couldn't pay his mortgage with such a huge cut with no notice. So I'm sure he'd appreciate the advice that it's better to take no pay than lower pay the week of Christmas.

    This guy was born so wealthy he doesn't understand normal people. He owns property in California, where he grew up, and Colorado, where he lived before he moved here, and here in Tennessee among many other investments. He lives in the most expensive, by far, subdivision in Knoxville, he is 52, has a 25 year old wife expecting their second child, and he does yoga for an hour every morning. He's not like the rest of us!

    Parent

    If I were Hillary Clinton, I would be (5.00 / 4) (#113)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 01:33:45 AM EST
    seriously considering remaining in my Senate seat.  Leave Obama and young Mr. Faveau to their own devices.  Who needs 'em?

    Parent
    I've come to the conclusion that one would (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:35:54 AM EST
    have to believe in God to survive and thrive through crap like that. I believe she has abundant faith and, for her sake, I am thankful that she does.

    Parent
    Teflon (none / 0) (#116)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:37:57 AM EST
    Come on now... (none / 0) (#117)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:45:45 AM EST
    I'm an atheist here. You can't go around being more cynical than I am. You'll blow my cover.

    I think that Hillary has a kind of faith-based teflon. I don't have it and I wish there was some other way of getting it.

    Maybe therapy and/or pharmaceuticals.

    Parent

    Didn't you read about the results (none / 0) (#122)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 10:15:30 AM EST
    of new data from Framingham study?  Happy people spread happiness.  Especially, for women, other women. Husband can be sad--doesn't matter (this part I have trouble believing).  So, obviously Hillary Clinton is a contented, optimistic person; she spreads it to other women and they spread it to her.  Simple.

    Parent
    No, hadn't read that study... (none / 0) (#125)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 12:40:52 PM EST
    but I like the conclusions. I'll look for it. Thanks again.

    Parent
    Here: (none / 0) (#129)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:15:07 PM EST
    If I were Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 07:18:08 AM EST
    I'd move to another country. In the U.S., the narrative is set in stone, and anything goes. She will never be afforded dignity or respect here.

    Parent
    Saturday's anti-Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:16:14 PM EST
    news:  Bill gives unvetted speech in Singapore.  I am beginning to dread the coming, non-stop furor.

    Parent
    Well, there goes SoS I guess. (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:26:05 PM EST
    What do you think? Will Hillary (5.00 / 3) (#134)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:29:17 PM EST
    Clinton politely decline?  Or has she already resigned her Senate seat.  Or is this really not as big a deal as I think it is (Faveau, that is; my blood boils at the thought of him being the "voice" behind Obama.)

    Parent
    Oh, I'm sure it will blow over (5.00 / 4) (#140)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:41:46 PM EST
    the BC speech thing I mean.

    The Favreau thing will also die down because, between you and me, no one cares about this stuff anymore except for you and me and a small number of other people - it's become normative, and it's a new age when this is supposed to be funny, and people don't care that she's been disrespected and demeaned like this for years and what the effect of that is on all women, and people also don't remember that the photo depicts behaviors that real women used to have endure all the time in the workplace before feminazis forced the passage of sexual harassment laws and thus we might be a little, er, sensitive to that kind of mocking.

    The weird thing for me, oculus - I had to go back and do a double take at that picture because I had a funny familiar feeling about it. Then I realized that it reminds me so much of the young Republican frat boys we young progressives (male and female) used to make fun of in college for being so disgusting and sexist and ignorant. But these are new generation DEMOCRATS. And the tableau in that photo is (at least partially) representative of the new face of the democratic party - the hip, young, cool, Obamacrats. Don't you just look at the photo and think "those must be gross young republican boys"?

    We've come a long way, baby.

    Parent

    I'm holding out hope... (none / 0) (#121)
    by kdog on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 08:56:36 AM EST
    for darkhorse candidate Ron Kuby.

    Parent
    Having never been a KOS... (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 09:14:28 PM EST
    ...head (or whatever they're called), the names and who's what among the posters there isn't of much interest to me.  Perhaps it would be to some here.  

    I did find the discussion of community policing and its abuse detailed in this diary interesting.

    Do You Really Want Daily Kos Representing the Democratic Party?

    http://coloradopols.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=8328

    Fascinating. I have seen a little bit of the (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Teresa on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 09:45:38 PM EST
    battle of the trolls but I didn't realize that they actually had a blog. I also don't understand why a known banned user is allowed to post when they ban all sock puppets according to Hunter.

    I'm still reading and following the links in another window but I generally agree with the diarist you linked. The people taking over there are ruining the place. No elected official will stay there long because they will end up embarrassed over it.

    Parent

    Given the nature... (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:02:05 PM EST
    ...of Progressives/Democrats/Liberals in their diversity of opinions and ideas, can any one group truly represent all of them?  

    It truly is a big tent and I'm not comfortable with one blog speaking for me or representing the entire Party.

    Parent

    Dkos is Dkos (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:14:41 PM EST
    and what happens there happens there. I'm personally glad to stay away, and I'm sad that it's a shadow of what it used to be..

    Parent
    It is sad. I have gone back a few times and (none / 0) (#80)
    by Teresa on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:21:57 PM EST
    think it's a bit better and then I get reminded why I can't stay.

    I've clicked on another link from the diary MileHi linked and I'm reading comments worthy of the primary. It's fun in a train wreck sort of way. I may be up all night!

    Parent

    It does have a train wreck quality (none / 0) (#82)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:25:13 PM EST
    but honestly, I have better things to do with my time.

    Parent
    Me too. I should be learning Quick Books (none / 0) (#85)
    by Teresa on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:33:46 PM EST
    or reading. I'm reading the book that I think is a prequel to the Da Vinci Code (which I've never read). I didn't think I would like it because I'm pretty ignorant of the Catholic church despite my ex-husband's family. It's a great book so far.

    Parent
    hehe (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:35:59 PM EST
    How's the planning going for your next move?

    I'm supposed to be (strike that: AM) studying for finals. . .

    Parent

    I guess I'm going to stay home for a while (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by Teresa on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:59:48 PM EST
    and maybe try to find a few small businesses to do their quarterly taxes, etc.

    I got so mad yesterday andgarden. The owner laid off a guy who works in the warehouse, fixes our machinery, kind of a jack of all trades. He has two little kids. The next payday was going to be his Christmas money. He is paid very little and I promise you two weeks of his pay won't keep the company operating more than an hour or two.

    I started to just get up and walk out and leave them in a mess. A lady who works for me is very inexperienced in accounting and she needs the job (as long as it lasts) and she also is a single mom. She needs me to stay and teach her what I can so she can keep her job. I just couldn't walk out on her but I want to tell the Aruba wind surfing owner to kiss off.

    Late one night when no one is around, I'll post our website so you can see the kind of technology the place has. It is really an amazing operation with inquiries worldwide but the financial crisis just ruined us.

    Parent

    That's so sad Teresa (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:05:48 PM EST
    Hopefully the fired warehouse worker can get unemployment.

    From the way you put it, it sounds like your boss is being penny wise and pound foolish, but I guess only you know how far in the hole he is!

    Parent

    He is a very rich man personally but he has (5.00 / 3) (#103)
    by Teresa on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:28:11 PM EST
    lost a ton of money in the company so far. He was going to put in an additional $500,000 about two weeks before the stock market tanked so I think he must have lost some $'s there.

    I'm going to play teacher for one more week and then I'm a goner. I'm not working twice as hard with a 53% pay cut! One of the men took a 60% cut. He is going to take the first job he can find and he is truly the brains behind our technology so you are right about the penny wise comment.

    Parent

    Hey, DK is bragging one of (none / 0) (#111)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 01:31:35 AM EST
    their own was tapped by Obama.  

    Parent
    Pat Buchanan will be pleased (none / 0) (#112)
    by andgarden on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 01:33:06 AM EST
    Does Florida (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by cal1942 on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:04:06 PM EST
    have any fine receivers other than Harvin?  

    I hope Harvin and any Alabama player on the cusp can play.  It's best if both teams are at full strength for showdown games.

    Looking forward to this one, could be great fun to watch especially with no emotional involvement in the outcome.

    Is their a sports book on whether (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 01:34:29 PM EST
    Percy plays Sat.?

    Mwanwhile, back at the Met, Gary Lehman will sing Tristan Sat. according to Met's website.  He's the replacement tenor.

    This reminded me of you... (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 01:40:53 PM EST
    ...for some reason.  Even though it speaks for all the football programs in the Heartland.

    Biased, liberal media puts elite teams atop AP poll

    The out-of-touch media was at it again this week, stocking the top of the Associated Press college football rankings with elite teams - teams with very little understanding of the difficulties and troubles faced by the typical college football team in Middle America.

    "Look at the teams up top - Alabama, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, USC - the media has been in the bag for them from the beginning," said Marty Heffner, host of an online sports talk show boasting thousands of listeners across the country. "On what grounds? Some fancy win-loss records? Ridiculous. It's just another case of the mainstream media going all ga-ga over people who are good at stuff."

    Meanwhile, a hard-working team like Michigan gets ignored.  "The liberal media likes to laugh at a team like Michigan because they don't fit their definition of what great is," said Heffner. "But Michigan football goes to work every day just like a Florida or a Texas, but without all the fanfare. They're not celebrities. They're a team Joe Six-Pack can identify with."

    http://sportspickle.com/

    Parent

    Oh, finally some recognition for Mich. (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 01:43:38 PM EST
    football program.  Funny, I hadn't realized the MSM was shunning them.  This year it would be better to be off the radar though.

    Parent
    If you wanna bet on it.... (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 01:46:59 PM EST
    there is a bookie that will take your action oc:)

    At least I know for sure the Jets will have Shaun Ellis at DE in San Fran Sunday...depsite his run in with Jersey cops yesterday.  I guess the Jets got tired of Plaxico and the Giants getting all the press...that or we live in a police state.  Yeah..thats the ticket.  

    Parent

    So will Hillary have to take (none / 0) (#6)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:08:04 PM EST
    a pay cut in order for her appointment to meet the requirements set forth in the Constitution?

    Surprise Surprise (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:17:28 PM EST
    Wingnut trash, delivered hot and steamy by our local delivery person.

    But Democrat apologists...

    The same argument was advanced, during the recent election, when some of the common people impertinently asked to see Barack Obama's birth certificate, as proof of his right to stand for the presidency.

    So, after the founding fathers burned so much midnight oil over that document, it turns out to be inaccessible, unenforceable and irrelevant.

    lol, What hypocrites!  Not a peep about the constitution shredding party that has been joyfully going on in the WH during the last 8 years.

    Parent

    So did you (none / 0) (#22)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 03:05:17 PM EST
    read article one section six of the constitution?  

    Parent
    The usual (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by cal1942 on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:22:08 PM EST
    sick, cheap, niggling, meaningless crap.

    As I recall from the stuff I read in the 70s and 80s the objective here (Article 1, Section 6, Clause 2)was to prevent the willy nilly creation of new public offices by legislators for the purpose of self aggrandizement and the prevention of holding two offices concurrently.

    So I have to ask people like you this question:  Did you make the same shabby little complaint when your boy appointed Ashcroft and Abraham in 2001?

    I didn't think so.

    Parent

    Actually (none / 0) (#24)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 03:10:00 PM EST
    I have been concentrating on the 4th and the 5th. Funny your man has been so busy worrying about Obama's birth certificate and Hillary as SOS, that he must have skipped the 4th and 5th amendment. Not a peep about the US constitution until now.

    lol

    Parent

    That (none / 0) (#28)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 03:20:22 PM EST
    birth certificate thing is a bunch of crap.  I do not know who my man either.  sorry.

    Parent
    So what.. (none / 0) (#32)
    by gtesta on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 03:27:59 PM EST
    Where's andgarden when I need him...
    The PA constitution bars legislators from receiving a pay increase in the same session that they vote themselves one.  What do they do...they keep their pay the same and take the increase as a "per diem allowance".  Then the new pay takes effect in the next session.
    So they can segregate the SoS pay increase amount as a per diem. Big deal.


    Parent
    They will (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by eric on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 03:17:58 PM EST
    just apply the Saxbe fix, like they did for Saxbe, Philander Knox, Edmund Muskie, and Lloyd Bentsen.

    Nothing demonstrates more clearly the American's complete ignorance of history than this issue.  This is nothing new.  Senators have been appointed to cabinet positions before.

    Parent

    Did you know (none / 0) (#31)
    by Steve M on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 03:22:01 PM EST
    that Justice Breyer once argued the Saxbe fix was still unconstitutional?  It was a pretty painful argument.  Made me think a little less of the man.

    Parent
    I didn't know that (none / 0) (#36)
    by eric on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 04:06:05 PM EST
    I imagine that it is something like a "you can't unring the bell" type of argument.  As in, once the congressperson votes for a raise in pay for the office, the congressperson is forever precluded from holding that office.


    Parent
    One has to wonder if this would even be (none / 0) (#11)
    by nycstray on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:22:19 PM EST
    brought up if Kerry was up for SoS.

    If she retires/quits beforehand, doesn't this become null and void? She won't be a sitting senator . . . .

    Parent

    It Is F'ing Nonsense (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:34:51 PM EST
    Written by a ultra conservative Obama and Clinton hater, and delivered by one of our local GOPers.

    In another of Warner's wingnut diatribes he blames the entire banking crisis on Clinton:

    If we establish what caused that, we shall have discovered the root of the banking crisis. Well, that is easy: it was Gordon Gekko and his ilk, was it not? Actually, no: it was Bill Clinton and his cronies, with their politically correct affirmative action. That is the fact of the matter - the Clinton administration compelled the banks to lend to minorities, to comply with racial and social quotas that defied all the rules of banking.

    wingnutworld


    Parent

    lol!~ you don't actually think I'm going to (none / 0) (#19)
    by nycstray on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:54:07 PM EST
    click on a link labeled "wingnutworld", now do you?!  ;)

    Parent
    My Title Not Theirs (none / 0) (#21)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:59:55 PM EST
    It is a link to opinion page of the Scotsman Gerald Warner's haggis aka tripe.

    Parent
    All she has to do is take a $4701 (none / 0) (#23)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 03:08:11 PM EST
    pay cut.  It has been done before.  I could care less, but it is fun watching Squeaky get all worked up.

    Parent
    Ah (none / 0) (#25)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 03:10:40 PM EST
    Confessions from a troll.

    Parent
    You (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 03:21:32 PM EST
    responded to my post.  You got all worked up.  Your definition of a troll:  
    someone who does not agree with you.

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#34)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 03:44:22 PM EST
    Someone who posts for the sole reason to get people worked up.

    Seems like that is what you admitted to.  

    Parent

    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 03:58:36 PM EST
    I did not know you were going to get worked up.  I apologize.  I will run any future posts through you to avoid further working up.

    Parent
    Obviously (none / 0) (#39)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 04:24:17 PM EST
    But you set out to annoy commenters here. You stated that you could care less about the constitutional (non) issue that you brought up several comments after you brought it up. It seems clear that your only intent was to get commenters here riled up, for the fun of it.

    Classic trolling.

    Parent

    Wrong (none / 0) (#119)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 07:31:39 AM EST
    I could care less about Hillary's pay.  The fix is easy,easy, easy.  The Saxbe fix.  You got spun up for nothing.  Read my original post, here I will save you the exercise from having to scroll:

    So will Hillary have to take a pay cut in order for her appointment to meet the requirements set forth in the Constitution?

    Point out where annoying comments were.  Please point out the annoying comments.


    Parent

    The conditions (none / 0) (#84)
    by cal1942 on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:32:37 PM EST
    set forth in Article 1, Section 6, Clause 2 probably don't apply at all in even the twisted sense you suggest.

    Congress increased pay for the President and executive officers before Bush took office and before Hillary Clinton was in the Senate. Although Congress could have passed subsequent increases since that time I'm not aware of any such act.

    The Department of State was created in the first session of Congress long before any of us were born.

    Parent

    Top 100 H.S. List (none / 0) (#7)
    by CST on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:09:25 PM EST
    U.S. News came out today.

    I am really confused by some of their designations.  What is a magnet school exactly?  I thought I went to one, but not according to this.

    Poor Nebraska, Oklahoma and D.C. residents.  Apparently none of their schools even reach the rank of "honorable mention"

    Woo! (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by kayla on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 05:36:32 PM EST
    My High School is number one.  It's a magnet school. A magnet school is a school where students from all over can test in, instead of students having to live in the same school district.  Kids from all over the DC area go to Thomas Jefferson high.

    Parent
    Do you know what the "N"... (none / 0) (#8)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:14:47 PM EST
    ...on the University of Nebraska's football helmets stands for?  

    Parent
    I can't tell if this is snark (none / 0) (#13)
    by CST on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:26:57 PM EST
    Or a trick question.  Nebraska right?

    Parent
    Me, snarky? (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:29:41 PM EST
    Umpossible!  

    It stands for nowledge.  Get it?  Ha, ha--silly Cornshuckers can't spell!

    Parent

    Article says Nebraska, et al., didn't (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:18:25 PM EST
    know enough about their own schools to participate in this analysis!!!

    Parent
    I know (none / 0) (#12)
    by CST on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:26:00 PM EST
    Pretty sad.  They also said none of the information they did provide showed that any of their schools were up to "honorable mention" status.  Which I would note comes after gold, silver, and bronze status.

    The top 100 are just gold.  Although I think these are just public schools.  There have got to be some good private schools in D.C. - unless they are all in Virginia or something.

    Parent

    Yup, it's a list of the top public schools (none / 0) (#15)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:34:10 PM EST
    Those of us who went elsewhere can continue to be snobs. ..

    (And yes, DC has some excellent private schools, as do most other cities.)

    Parent

    Cities? (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by CST on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:40:02 PM EST
    Most of the swanky ones around here are out in the 'burbs.

    Some of the public schools on the list are pretty snobby too.  I think it's cheating a bit when you include schools with an admissions exam - and then rank them on how well their students perform compared to others in the state.  Of course they are gonna do better, they took all the "smart" kids (or at least the ones who test well).

    That doesn't mean it's a good school.  It just means they have good students.

    Parent

    And often the best teachers (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by andgarden on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:43:14 PM EST
    go figure. . .

    Incidentally, my experience is that the best public schools are in the suburbs, but good private schools are everywhere, even within city limits.

    Parent

    In a bygone era, (none / 0) (#90)
    by cal1942 on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:49:30 PM EST
    in fact my era, the best public schools were all in the city.

    Parent
    The HS my brilliant and handsome... (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 02:57:34 PM EST
    ...nephews went to (Silver Award winner) didn't have an entrance test per se; you just had to be able to afford to live within the boundries.  Not an easy thing to do.

    Their "public" school was probably better than most private ones around.  

     

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#26)
    by CST on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 03:17:19 PM EST
    "you just had to be able to afford to live within the boundries"

    I think that's how most good public schools work.  High property taxes = more money for schools.  

    Full disclosure - I went to a "test" school that is classified as public.  It's an urban school and it is way high up on the list.  Definitely better than a lot of private schools (and probably has a bigger endowment than a lot of them too).  The only thing about it that is "public" though is the free cost and residency requirement (which people often cheat).

    Parent

    No doubt $ plays a big role... (none / 0) (#33)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 03:30:46 PM EST
    ... especially in the urban areas.  

    However,  when you look at the Iowa schools that are listed, there are a lot of small-town/rural schools that happen to place an priority on providing a quality education to their kids.  

    So, the lack of a high property tax base doesn't necessarily preclude quality schools.

    Parent

    CST (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by cal1942 on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 10:46:24 PM EST
    I agree 100%.  Great comment.

    The alleged 'great schools' are completely unremarkable IMO for the reasons you state and more.

    Why bother with these meaningless lists except to stroke the already bloated ego of some people (yes, yes not all) who were born on third base.

    Parent

    And... voted! (none / 0) (#37)
    by Plutonium Page on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 04:09:02 PM EST
    You guys make legal stuff make sense.  That should be your new slogan.

    So, I guess... (none / 0) (#38)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 04:19:53 PM EST
    ...we're still waiting to hear if the SC rules that Obama is really a "radical Islamic Indonesian bastard orphan and known Kenyan*" who will enslave us all in Reparation Work Camps and take our shiny guns away?

    *h/t to the fine folks at Wonkette

    Done (none / 0) (#42)
    by lentinel on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 05:07:17 PM EST


    Blackwater Killings (none / 0) (#44)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 05:58:11 PM EST
    Five Blackwater Worldwide security guards have been indicted and a sixth was negotiating a plea with prosecutors for a 2007 shooting that left 17 Iraqis dead and became an anti-American rallying cry for insurgents, people close to the case said Friday.

    [...]

    Young children were among the victims and the shooting strained relations between the U.S. and Iraq.

    [...]

    The exact charges in the indictment were unclear, but the Justice Department has been considering manslaughter and assault charges against the guards for weeks. Prosecutors have also been considering bringing charges under a law, passed as part of a 1988 drug bill, that carries a mandatory 30-year prison sentence for using a machine gun in a crime of violence.

    [...]

    Further complicating the case, the State Department granted all the Blackwater guards limited immunity in exchange for their sworn statements shortly after the shooting.

    NYT

    Doesn't look like anything will stick, but at least they are indicted and not totally above the reach of law.

    On the other hand, the (none / 0) (#45)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 06:14:02 PM EST
    conduct of those charged doesn't seem to conform to the requirements of the drug statute the U.S. federal government is hanging its hat on.  Hey, we tried.  What could we do?  Well, except permit the Iraqi judicial system to charge and try these civilians, that is.

    Parent