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Allen West: 'I Hold In My Hand ... ' A List Of 80 Communist Party Members In The Dem Caucus

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Other Politics
Posted on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 09:52:29 AM EST
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Serious GOP VP contender Allen West has a list of 80 Communist Party members in the Democratic Caucus.

REP. ALLEN WEST (R-FL): I believe there's about 70, 80 to 81 members of the Democratic Party that are members of the Communist Party [in the House of Representatives].

Hearkening to the good old days:

"The Commie-crat Party" -Joseph McCarthy

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    Allen West: 'I Hold In My Hand ... ' A List Of 80 Communist Party Members In The Dem Caucus | 128 comments (128 topical)

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    The sad thing is that millions of people will (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Angel on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 09:59:50 AM EST
    believe this.  

    Communists? (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by jbindc on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 10:10:14 AM EST
    I thought it was Socialists who are supposed to be scary?

    Commies are so 50 years ago....

    Bernie Sanders (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by CST on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 10:13:35 AM EST
    is pretty terrifying.

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by jbindc on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 10:16:54 AM EST
    I feel if I ever met him, he might want to offer to walk me to my car in a dark parking garage.  Ooh!

    Parent
    It's the Einstein-like hair and (none / 0) (#111)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 06:52:24 PM EST
    the Brooklyn (Bronx?) accent.

    Parent
    Exactly What I was Thinking... (none / 0) (#19)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:36:03 AM EST
    And the McCarthy comparison seems ridiculous.

    That was a time when people feared the communist party, now I doubt many people, including myself, could name a leading communist.  Raul Castro or Kim Jong's kids ? Is China communist ?

    Socialist is even getting old, and pretty hard to call out a dem on it since, according to every election, it's common knowledge that the whole party is anyways.

    Maybe Al Qaeda could near the McCarthy claim, but no one would believe it.

    Parent

    No f*ckin' way... (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 10:12:13 AM EST
    Where's Doc Brown? I just got a telegram dated April 11th 1955, Allen West is stuck and needs a pick-up in the Delorean.

    Somewhere... (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 10:24:07 AM EST
    Jeffrey Loria wonders if Allen West knows the ins and outs of the double switch.

    Ha! (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 10:29:29 AM EST


    Parent
    I could riff all day on this one bro... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 10:36:22 AM EST
    pure comedy gold.  

    The writers at The Daily Show and the like can mail it in and take the afternoon off.


    Parent

    This is (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 10:46:25 AM EST
    why the GOP has become a national joke.

    Yes, but (none / 0) (#21)
    by cal1942 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:40:26 AM EST
    unfortunately our general electorate will send them back to the House and Senate and maybe even to the White House. And.  As Angel said above, millions will believe West.

    One of our many problems is an ignorant electorate.

    Parent

    Oh, yeah (none / 0) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:46:00 AM EST
    there's millions of people who are willfully ignorant like West or maybe a better word for West is a grifter. There are people that will believe this crap but are there enough of them is the question of the day?

    Parent
    Oh, thank goodness! (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by shoephone on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:07:02 AM EST
    I was feeling so sad when Santorum dropped out, how there wouldn't be any more crazy comedy from the GOP.

    Allen West, the Friar's Club thanks you.

    Repeat (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Addison on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:14:06 AM EST
    Did we go through something like this in 2008 with Bachmann? At least Michelle went with the vague "anti-American" instead of the specific "Communists". And members of the actual Party!

    There are only ~2,000 members of the Communist Party USA left in the whole country. That means that .4% of all Communist Party members are in Congress. This is an astounding number, and makes me think that the CPUSA is, in fact, the most effective political group in this nation's history. Who knew!?

    However, as to the truth on this matter, I will withhold my judgement until jimakaPPJ weighs in.

    Only 2000? (none / 0) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:56:41 PM EST
    They've been co-opted by Demos.

    lol

    Parent

    i assume you meant (none / 0) (#91)
    by cpinva on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 04:21:39 PM EST
    4%, not 4/10ths of 1%.

    Parent
    Yes. (none / 0) (#92)
    by Addison on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 04:25:30 PM EST


    Parent
    At this point, (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by lentinel on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:23:57 AM EST
    I wish to God that there were a bunch of communists in the House.
    LOL... (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:38:36 AM EST
    Maybe Allen just has his "ists" mixed up, there may well be an infiltration of fascists, in both parties!

    Parent
    Can you imagine (none / 0) (#22)
    by cal1942 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:41:21 AM EST
    what West would say about FDR?

    Parent
    So...it's come to this, has it? (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Anne on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:33:42 AM EST
    Now there's a "serious" GOP VP contender who is "hearing" things, and we're all expected to...what?  What are we supposed to do with this latest burbling?  Take this man seriously?  

    "Hearing" things, eh?  There are only about a million jokes there, all of which are likely to be made.  I sincerely hope West is about to find out that talking about the voices in your head isn't going to prove to be a good political move.

    Just when I thought these people couldn't take the crazy to any higher level, they do.

    Can't wait to see how Romney handles this one.

    Well... (none / 0) (#24)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:47:37 AM EST
    ...the last GOP VP contender could actually see the commies from her house.

    If you are insinuating that this somehow disqualifies a GOP VP, I would beg to differ.

    Parent

    No Scott, she didn't say that. (none / 0) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:59:50 AM EST
    And I am sure you know she didn't. But just in case you have been out of touch with the world since 2008...

    It was actually comedian Tina Fey, who was impersonating Ms. Palin on Saturday Night Live, who uttered the line that is now widely attributed to the former Alaska governor.

    The basis for this line comes from a September 2008 interview with ABC News's Charles Gibson, who asked Palin what insights she had from her state being so close to Russia. She responded: "They're our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska."

    Link


    Parent

    Either way (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by TomStewart on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:37:13 PM EST
    still foolish, and not the basis for national security credentials.

    Parent
    That Palin woman... (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 03:22:10 PM EST
    ...Makes every other dumb person look a little smarter by comparison.

    Yes, you can see an unoccupied part of Siberia from an unoccupied part of Alaska.

    Now, explain how that unimportant datum gives Ms. Palin an insight into foreign relations.

    Parent

    true enough, (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by cpinva on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 04:25:36 PM EST
    but then, gore never claimed to have invented the internet, and yet, that hasn't stopped every rightwing blog from saying he did.

    however. ms. palin did imply that, due to alaska's proximatey to russian soil, this somehow buffed up her foreign policy credentials.

    Parent

    No she did not imply anything. (1.00 / 0) (#105)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 05:29:38 PM EST
    She made a very straight forward statement of fact.

    And you mean Gore didn't invent the Internet?

    lol.

    Parent

    Hmm (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 06:18:51 PM EST
    how do you like getting a taste of your own medicine?

    You guys have been shopping the lie about Gore for years.

    Parent

    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:33:30 PM EST
    Jim was one of those that pushed that lie.

    Parent
    Ugh... (none / 0) (#116)
    by Addison on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:37:32 PM EST
    ...well at least he learned the President's actual last name over the past 4 years, and doesn't still refer to him solely as "Hussein".

    Parent
    Shame and embarassment ... (none / 0) (#117)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:55:51 PM EST
    ... eventually took hold?

    Parent
    Eh... (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Addison on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:13:05 PM EST
    ...that's can't be it, can it? He probably just forgot that was a thing he was doing.

    I mean, it wasn't a natural thing to do, to call the candidate/president, "Hussein". Across the blogosphere it was always an affected and "arch" gesture designed to show ethnic-aligned contempt with a modicum of plausible deniability ("it's not derogatory, it's his name, durr hurr!").

    So, if you forget you're supposed to be doing that once the novelty wears off, or you find a better way to show said contempt, I bet it's easy enough to stop without "meaning" to.

    Parent

    not possible. (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by cpinva on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:19:08 PM EST
    She made a very straight forward statement of fact.

    since 2008, ms. palin has utterly failed to make a straight forward anything, much less a statement of fact. she speaks in garbled tongue, insulting her native language every single time she opens her mouth, even if it's just for eating.

    Parent

    Alaska and Russia (none / 0) (#74)
    by star on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:51:57 PM EST
    I visited Alaska last summer and before the plane landed, the Air Alaska pilot was highlighting the distinct features of Alaska and one of them was the proximity to Russia from some parts of Alaska.
    The hotel we stayed at Juneau Alaska had so many Russians on staff, who were actually speaking Russian. they were second gen Russians , actually come over from Russia!!
    I was a bit embarrassed because I had joined the chorus of Palin haters who thought she WAS dumb for the "seeing Russia" comment.

     

    Parent

    I thought (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by TomStewart on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 02:13:18 PM EST
    she was dumb for using it as am example of her national security credentials. Yes, you can see Russia from Alaska, that doesn't make you an expert on dealing with the Russians.


    Parent
    Yes, and yet, how unfortunate (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by shoephone on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 02:25:51 PM EST
    that what you just said still needs to be explained to some people.

    Parent
    Well Jim (none / 0) (#82)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 03:28:52 PM EST
    I thought the commies part of the reference made it apparent that I wasn't being serious.  And for the record, while physically possible, it's nearly impossible, and certainly a rather dumb comment in regards to a discussion about her national Defense chops.

    But to make my crystal clear, the R's were down with Plain who made many unfounded claims that were beyond ridiculous.  Now a potential VP had made an unfounded and ridiculous claim, and if history is to be a judge, that will not alone disqualify anyone from the VP spot on the R side.

    Not comment on the commie comment from your fellow party member ?  Just busting chops over dated Palin misnomers.

    Parent

    Huh??? (1.00 / 0) (#106)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 05:35:32 PM EST
    But to make my crystal clear, the R's were down with Plain who made many unfounded claims that were beyond ridiculous.  Now a potential VP had made an unfounded and ridiculous claim, and if history is to be a judge, that will not alone disqualify anyone from the VP spot on the R side.

    Is that like the false claim that she burned books???? That her child was actually her daughters???

    The Left wing of the Demo party poisoned the well with their tactics re Palin. It will take years before goodwill can take us back to where we can debate issues rather than trade false claims.

    Parent

    "Pallin' around with terrorists" (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 06:25:59 PM EST
    ...apparently passes for reasoned debate in some circles.

    I love how PPJ suggests that Palin's stupidity is the product of a liberal plot.

    What did the "liberal media" do to Palin to make her say so many stupid things that now all we can think about her is how stupid she is?

    Oh, right.  They REPORTED what she said.

    Parent

    Huh? (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:59:04 PM EST
    The Left wing of the Demo party poisoned the well with their tactics re Palin. It will take years before goodwill can take us back to where we can debate issues rather than trade false claims.

    Did you sleep through the 90s as well as the smear campaign against Gore and Kerry in 2000 and 2004?

    That's the only way someone could make such a ridiculous claim.

    Parent

    Watch Couric Interview (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 09:06:45 AM EST
    Clearly she poisoned her own damn well, no help needed from the left.

    It is rather amusing to still here people defend her, even after McCain & crew tossed her under the bus, the devout and delusional few still trying to blame her stupidity and bold face lies on the left.

    I'll stop Jim, and bow to you and say Palin was a fantastic pick for VP as would be West, happy pappy ?

    Parent

    That's what's commonly called ... (none / 0) (#122)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:01:13 PM EST
    ... a distinction without a difference.

    Parent
    If Romney is thinking about West for the VP slot, (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Farmboy on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:49:26 AM EST
    anyone want to start a pool for how long it takes before Mitt speaks up to support Allen?

    I understand how difficult it can be for an African-American in today's society. In fact, I can relate to black people very well indeed. My ancestors once owned slaves, and it is in my lineage to work closely with the black community.

    Not intended to be a factual source

    Then why post the comment?????? (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:01:35 PM EST
    I mean since you know it isn't true...

    Parent
    Folks, for just pennies a day (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Farmboy on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:06:17 PM EST
    you can help someone desperately in need of a sense of humor.

    Won't you please pick up the phone and call?

    Parent

    Spreading lies about a politicial opponent is (1.00 / 1) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:43:50 PM EST
    humor??

    Did you laugh when the Right tried to connect Obama to Islam???

    Parent

    I didn't laugh (5.00 / 0) (#78)
    by sj on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 02:37:48 PM EST
    I just rolled my eyes.

    Parent
    Except There Was No Disclaimer... (5.00 / 0) (#84)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 03:43:43 PM EST
    ...from the right, they were touting it as fact.  Still do, much like West claiming half the House D's are commies.

    Clearly, FB states it's not factual.  If you can't distinguish the difference...

    Parent

    The site that originated the faux Romney (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Farmboy on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 04:12:24 PM EST
    comment is a declared parody site, in the model of the Onion.

    parody: to produce a humorously exaggerated imitation of a person or group.

    Romney has a history of opening his mouth to display his silver spoon upbringing, such as his comments about being friends with Nascar and NFL owners. That is the basis for the parody.

    The comments by the Right that try to connect Obama with Islam are bigoted lies.

    bigotry: intolerance toward those who are different from oneself.

    Obama has many traits that differentiate him from the leaders of the Right: he is black; he has an unusual name, he didn't inherit wealth or power, he is a member of the Democratic Party, just to name a few.

    Hopefully this will help you in the future to tell the difference between parody and bigotry.

    Parent

    Ah yes (1.00 / 0) (#104)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 05:26:39 PM EST
    the old hide behind supposed humor defense.

    Ever see "black face" humor???

    Parent

    Wow. (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by shoephone on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 05:57:53 PM EST
    You have officially driven yourself off a cliff. ...and yet you persist. Sad to watch.

    Parent
    Says the guy who ... (5.00 / 0) (#119)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:01:50 PM EST
    Ah yes - the old hide behind supposed humor defense.

    ... puts a smiley face or "LOL!" in every few posts.

    Parent
    The amazing thing is how many (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:52:36 AM EST
    of his constituents believe him. It's takes real crazy to vote for a guy like West. So happy, happy, happy to have left Florida. Never to return. I don't care how many amusement parks they build!

    I see that you folks don't keep up (1.00 / 0) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:53:57 AM EST
    "The Congressman was referring to the 76 members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. The Communist Party has publicly referred to the Progressive Caucus as its allies. The Progressive Caucus speaks for itself. These individuals certainly aren't proponents of free markets or individual economic freedom," Melvin said in a statement to The Huffington Post.

    Guess your mother never told you that you are known by the company you keep.

    ;-)

    Baa waa waa (5.00 / 0) (#30)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:58:03 AM EST
    Wow, more proof that Allen is completely nuts as if we needed more proof.

    I guess when nobody likes your ideas then you're just left with name calling.

    Parent

    social darwinist (1.00 / 0) (#34)
    by me only on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:01:27 PM EST
    ring a bell?  Didn't think so.

    Parent
    Nobody likes???? (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:45:31 PM EST
    Last poll I saw said there were more conservatives than liberals...

    and very few of us social liberals.

    Parent

    You haven't (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:18:30 PM EST
    been paying attention then. The GOP brand is in the trash with the majority of Americans disliking the GOP to the tune of 56/36. I would like to send thanks out to the tea party and George W. Bush and Rush Limbaugh too for doing such a great job turning the GOP into a stinking garbage heap.

    And so what if there's more self professed 'conservatives. That leaves 67% of the population to detest that 33% minority.

    Parent

    Good One... (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 03:56:35 PM EST
    there are more rats than cats and that proves no one like West.


    Parent
    Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by Farmboy on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:58:26 AM EST
    What are you implying about Him?

    Parent
    Are you saying prostitutes and tax collectors (none / 0) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:54:31 PM EST
    are communists??

    Really??

    lol


    Parent

    I can't believe (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by sj on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 02:39:45 PM EST
    you put that in writing forevermore.

    Parent
    Interesting... (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:00:34 PM EST
    These individuals certainly aren't proponents of free markets or individual economic freedom

    We have proponents of free markets and/or individual economic freedom in Congress?  Who knew?

    Parent

    Ha! (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:17:01 PM EST
    So when the KKK endorses Romney I can call him a member of the KKK?

    Parent
    don't give romney any ideas. (5.00 / 0) (#96)
    by cpinva on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 04:41:15 PM EST
    as oblivious as he is, he might truly not have a clue who they are. for a guy with 3 degrees, he's been a terrible disappointment to his instructors. and going from being wealthy to being wealthy isn't much of a challenge, just ask g. bush.

    Parent
    Maybe not you but many Demos would (none / 0) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:51:45 PM EST
    BTW - Been noticing the increase in programs about the Mormon faith?? If not, stay tunded to MSNBC.

    Link

    Parent

    Kind of interesting (5.00 / 0) (#69)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:19:59 PM EST
    to see the GOP wriggle around all this Mormon stuff but it is what happens when you try to fuse politics and religion and state and religion.

    Parent
    What ? (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 04:07:06 PM EST
    So you are saying it's democrats who care about his faith ?  Holly fricken jesus christ mary, the *** astounds me Jim.

    The right has spent nearly a century making us into god hating heathens, but now when their guy isn't a christian, it will be the left up in arms about it.  Just like Cain, and the left being the party that hates him because he's black.  

    The contempt makes me want to vomit.  And the lack of any sort of common sense scares me, because I know if you are writing it, it's already in play over at Fox News and surely to be the victimization line of week.

    Remind me again why you are socially liberal, or is religion not part of that paradigm.

    Parent

    It's (5.00 / 0) (#98)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 04:51:01 PM EST
    freaking hilarious that talking about Romney's faith is a problem when the GOP thought it was so great when Bush Jr. wore his faith on his sleeve and saw no problem with him using religion as a club.  The reason Jim doesn't want it discussed is because he knows the evangelicals are going to not like Romney because of his religion. I have to wonder if evangelicals would fall under the category of "easily fooled" considering some of their previous decisions.

    Parent
    So now we have Scott telling us (1.00 / 1) (#103)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 05:22:59 PM EST
    Lawrence O'Donnell is a Repub...

    Well, that matches his claim that Palin said she could see communists from her front yard.

    My, my. The things I learn from Scott.

    But Scott, just a thought. Why didn't you read the link before engaging keyboard. Just too eager, eh?

    lol

    Parent

    that seems to be a republican issue: (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by cpinva on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:22:28 PM EST
    BTW - Been noticing the increase in programs about the Mormon faith?? If not, stay tunded to MSNBC.

    it's not going to matter to democrats, because they already think romney's a joke, his religion has nothing to do with it.

    Parent

    The religion has nothing to do with it (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 07:50:38 AM EST
    We've got Harry Reid, most of us love everything Rocky Anderson says and fights for in a kind of crazed way.  The Mormon religion has nothing to do with it for Democrats.

    Parent
    He would need to denounce them (none / 0) (#72)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:40:06 PM EST
    and their support.  Like Al Gore did to the Buddhists, which doesn't hurt a Buddhist's feelings :)  I would think all the Wall Street Democrats have publicly and through real actions denounced Communism several times over :)

    Parent
    I hope he does not (none / 0) (#75)
    by star on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 02:01:44 PM EST
    A person's religious belief is his business. I wish Obama had asked the "He is a Muslim" crowd "so what" ? i am tired of the wink and nod business of politicians telling what ever to get elected. We all KNOW Obama is not anti gay, but during elections he has to say "Marriage is between a man and women". How is that OK? If Romney stands behind his faith (no matter what it is ) more power to him.
    I am soooo glad I disconnected my cable . I heard from my friends that MSNBC is increasing their segments on 'Mormonism'.. I think it is sick.  repeating exactly what ever we accuse the right wingers of and then acting all morally high is totally disgusting.

    Parent
    Is the KKK a religious belief? (none / 0) (#123)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 07:47:11 AM EST
    I know they profess to be Christians, the cross means a lot to them, crosses on fire excite them....but is it a religious belief?

    If it is a religious belief I will not allow them to find acceptance in my country.  I despise the Klan and everything they stand for and everything they have done.  I had not even been born when they were at their apex, but I'm grateful that I was born into a nation intolerant of them.  I plan to keep it that way.

    It matters to me as an American voter a great deal if Republican nominations do not denounce the KKK.  And if they don't, I will use that against them.  It is called politics and power, and it is about not empowering those who would commit genocide within the parameters of our own country at the very least.

    Parent

    Melvin is a liar. (none / 0) (#36)
    by Addison on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:04:35 PM EST


    Parent
    West appears to be just (none / 0) (#6)
    by KeysDan on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 10:21:40 AM EST
    burnishing his credentials for the Republican vice presidential nod, as a companion to his military record in which General Raymond Odierno, 4th Infantry Division Commander initially brought criminal charges against Lt. Col West but a pre-trial hearing officer recommended dismissal of those charges. Odierno gave him an administrative punishment and fined him half-pay for two months ($5000).  And, then West retired in Spring of 2004.  The issue related to an August 2003 forcible interrogation of an iraqi police officer which some call a war crime.   So this latest is sort of the McCarthy to his earlier Charlie.  It should work with the Republican crowd.

    If you are going to bring up (1.00 / 1) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:50:21 AM EST
    the military... please say what he did.

    An Iraqi was being interrogated re bad guys setting a trap for West's troops.

    The guy wouldn't talk.

    West fired a pistol into a barrel of water, which frightened the Iraqi who then dropped a dime on the bad guys.

    West did violate the rules.... to protect his people.

    He's my kinda military leader.

    You may choose to think we should just let troops go in harms way without doing whatever is necessary.

    Parent

    Jim my friend... (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:55:36 AM EST
    enquiring TL minds wanna know you're take on the red threat to our House of Reps.  Thoughts?

    Parent
    Kdog my friend (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:07:25 PM EST
    I'll let the snark pass on by, but I add this.

    My comment was to provide context to KeysDans comment which was incomplete regarding West's actions that led to his retirement.

    Why KeysDan chose to leave that out I don't know.

    Like I wrote, West is my kinda military leader.

    Parent

    I posted the above... (none / 0) (#45)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:32:11 PM EST
    before I saw your comment below.  Our mutual snark is always good-natured, I hope you agree.

    Any thoughts on commie influence in Congress? Or thoughts on West in his current employ as a congressman?

    Parent

    Agreed on snark (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:40:06 PM EST
    I could say.... but I won't.... that many members of Congress are to the Left of Stalin...

    ;-)

    And I think West adds balance to the House.

    I want Christie as VP candidate. It'd be fun watching him debate Biden.

    Parent

    "West adds balance to the House" (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by shoephone on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:42:27 PM EST
    No, it's been clear for ages that West simply adds more mental IMbalance to the House.

    Parent
    I didn't know the subject (none / 0) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:04:32 PM EST
    was Franks and Pelosi.

    lol

    Parent

    Alas, Poor Jim (none / 0) (#66)
    by shoephone on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:11:46 PM EST
    We knew him, TL.

    Parent
    Well played shoephone... (none / 0) (#70)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:23:03 PM EST
    I must admit he does fit right in in the House.  

    Most other rackets don't tolerate such stupidity on company time, he's in the right racket, to be sure.  And he may well go far, to a VP nom and beyond!

    Parent

    You might want to add something (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by KeysDan on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:06:48 PM EST
    about the intelligence that was obtained from West's efforts (interrogation techniques that he was not trained for).  "suspects" were arrested, but no plans or weapons were found.    But, your beef is really with General Odierno, it seems who disagrees with your idea of a military leader.  But, you do make my point, it works for the Republican crowd. And, for that I thank you.

    Parent
    No my beef is with people who (none / 0) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:10:27 PM EST
    don't side with someone who is doing all he can to protect American troops.

    If the shoe fits......wear it.

    BTW - The attacks dropped to zero after the arrests. But I'm sure you will tell me that the arrests had nothing to do with that.

    heh

    Parent

    Um... (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Addison on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:29:01 PM EST
    All they accomplished was beating up an Iraqi Police Officer after putting a hood on his head. And shooting a pistol near his head to frighten him into given useless names and locations. They found no evidence of the plot they were investigating. He protected no one, he merely supervised the abuse of an Iraqi police officer, who now won't work with the USA.

    I'll admit, this does seem like the sort of military man most Republicans favor.

    As for the "attacks dropping to zero", how many attacks on his men had there been before the abusive interrogation? The reports show that West thought the information was a joke until a single attack occurred -- at which point he hauled in the police officer to take a few physical and psychological beatings. You make it sound like he'd unearthed some terrorist ring and quashed attacks in the region. He didn't. In any case, there were plenty more attacks (mortar, suicide bomb, IED) in Taji against American soldiers -- though perhaps not against West's individual unit.

    Parent

    BS - No they didn't (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:30:30 PM EST
    BTW - The attacks dropped to zero after the arrests. But I'm sure you will tell me that the arrests had nothing to do with that.

    West said the attacks dropped to zero.

    A claim that's backed by zero evidence.

    Parent

    And you have no evidence they did not. (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:41:51 PM EST
    The question is, why do you not want our troops getting the best protection via information??

    Your comments say a lot.

    Parent

    Huh? (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by Addison on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:47:29 PM EST
    In addition to being factually dubious, your basic assertion is wrong. How does beating up an Iraqi policeman -- because he says he knows nothing and therefore must know something -- and getting no meaningful intelligence besides a new list of people to harass constitute the "best protection" our troops can get? That just seems like a counter-productive torture pyramid scheme to me. All he did is give a black eye to the US military and antagonized Iraqi security forces. That's a step toward protecting US troops, sure, but a backwards one.

    Parent
    Yeah, I understand that your version of (1.00 / 2) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:59:28 PM EST
    torture is someone something to someone they don't like.

    But we've been down that road and now we have ROE's that are killing American troops.

    Parent

    Try that in English (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:03:41 PM EST
    With a few more verbs and less straw.

    BTW - Addison's comment, unlike yours, was entirely accurate.  Perhaps that's why you couldn't address it.

    Parent

    What are you talking about? (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by Addison on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:15:07 PM EST
    Yeah, I understand that your version of torture is someone something to someone they don't like.

    My version? My version? "My" version of torture is outlined in 18 U.S.C. § 2340. You're the one with the unique personal take on the subject of torture. Stop projecting.

    Parent

    I need no evidence (none / 0) (#58)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:57:34 PM EST
    I'm not the one making the specious claim.  

    You are - and there's a reason you don't provide so much as a single link.

    BTW - My comments do say a lot - they say BS, specious, winger fairy tales should not be believed.

    Parent

    Jim Doesn't Want to Link... (none / 0) (#83)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 03:35:01 PM EST
    ...to the Fox News Editorial board.

    Parent
    BTW - "The best protection" is NOT ... (none / 0) (#60)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:00:47 PM EST
    ... achieved by terrorizing our allies into providing gibberish based on nothing more than suspicions.

    The question is, why do you not want our troops getting the best protection.

    Parent

    That's a lie - several, in fact (5.00 / 7) (#42)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:26:12 PM EST
    He did far more than "fire a pistol into a barrel of water".  You don't get relieved of your command, sent for an Article 15 and end the career of an officer for "shooting into a barrel".  In fact, West threatened the life of an Iraqi policeman, Yehiya Kadoori Hamoodi.  Hamoodi was beaten by the men West sent to get him, claiming he "appeared to go for his weapon".  He was struck several more times by the men when West was interrogating him, something that was not part of West's duties.  West fired a shot in the air and began counting down from five. He told the soldiers to put Mr. Hamoodi's head in a sand-filled barrel usually used for clearing weapons. When he reached five, West fired a shot into the barrel and immediately next to Hamoodi's head.  Frightened, Hamoodi called out names, but no assassination plans or other evidence was ever found.  West later admitted it was "possible" he was wrong about Hamoodi.

    But it's not a big surprise that West is a big hero among the armchair warrior crowd.  Must be all that combat experience they get watching John Wayne movies.

    Parent

    BTW - Here's a link (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:32:56 PM EST
    Link

    For some reason, your false version had no links.

    I wonder why ...

    Parent

    And, West is the beneficiary (none / 0) (#95)
    by KeysDan on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 04:40:34 PM EST
    of propitious timing.  If his forcible interrogation of the Iraqi policeman had occurred after, rather than before, the public revelations and revulsions of Abu Ghraib abuses(Taguba Report, 60 Minutes, Seymour Hersh's New Yorker article) General Odierno's initial criminal charges against West may well have obtained a different outcome.   Rather than being in the House, he might be in the military's Big House, along with the likes of Charles Graner and Lynndie England.

    Parent
    good to know you're a (none / 0) (#94)
    by cpinva on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 04:34:40 PM EST
    machiavelian jim, an "ends justify the means" kind of guy. of course, the problem with that is you are the one who decides which ends are justifiable, and which aren't. and you're wrong about the outcome, the detainee in question didn't know anything about the planned attack, and so couldn't have given rep. west the information, regardless of what tactics were used on him.

    at least, that's what the board of inquiry said.

    from wikipedia:

    While serving in Taji, Iraq, West received information from an intelligence specialist about a reported plot to ambush him and his men.[6] The alleged plot reportedly involved Yahya Jhodri Hamoodi, a civilian Iraqi police officer.[6] West, who was not responsible for conducting interrogations in Iraq and had never conducted nor witnessed one, had his men detain Hamoodi.[6] In the process of detaining Mr. Hamoodi, soldiers testified that Hamoodi appeared to reach for his weapon and needed to be subdued.[6] Hamoodi was beaten by four soldiers from the 220th Field Artillery Battalion on the head and body.[10] West then fired his pistol near Hamoodi's head,[6] after which Hamoodi provided West with names and information, which Hamoodi later described as "meaningless information induced by fear and pain."[6] At least one of these suspects was arrested as a result, but no plans for attacks or weapons were found.[6] West said "At the time I had to base my decision on the intelligence I received. It's possible that I was wrong about Mr. Hamoodi."[

    so, not only did rep. west violate the rules of war, he didn't "save" his men from anything. an all around botch job.

    Parent

    I'm seeing a daisy ad in the future. (none / 0) (#7)
    by observed on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 10:23:58 AM EST


    romney/west! (none / 0) (#12)
    by cpinva on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:03:06 AM EST
    what a ticket! a bumbling plutocrat and a war criminal, could it possibly get any better? i think not, except maybe a gingrich/santorum/palin ticket, which wouldn't be nearly as entertaining.

    and i have zero sympathy for the idiots that voted this clown into office, they got the representation they deserve.

    You heard from who? (none / 0) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:07:17 AM EST
    That West was a serious GOP VP contender?

    Sarah Palin (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:16:05 AM EST


    Parent
    Always (5.00 / 0) (#73)
    by TomStewart on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:42:21 PM EST
    a reliable source!

    Parent
    Sadly, she is for some :) (5.00 / 0) (#126)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 08:04:40 AM EST


    Parent
    And, Herman Cain too. (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by KeysDan on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 03:56:19 PM EST
    That should clinch it.

    Parent
    ha! (none / 0) (#79)
    by sj on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 02:37:55 PM EST


    Parent
    The guy should be on a streetcorner... (none / 0) (#52)
    by Dadler on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:45:38 PM EST
    ...wearing a lobster bib and soiled knickers, carrying a nonsensical fluorescent sign that reads something like "Dirty Grumbles Stink North Korea!  Follow me Saints!!"

    Who Said? (none / 0) (#56)
    by msaroff on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:55:20 PM EST
    History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.

    Why that was Karl Marx.

    Alan West is proving Karl Marx correct.

    Imagine that.

    Careful msaroff (none / 0) (#85)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 03:51:32 PM EST
    West has room on his little list for you too!

    Parent
    Now's a good time (none / 0) (#61)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    to restate that I quit responding to Yman's comments on 1/1/12.

    I know that gives him an opportunity to say whatever he wants but his use of the lie word, etc., just got me to the point I just won't debate anything with.

    A day that will live in infamy - heh (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:05:23 PM EST
    "Anything he wants" = facts.

    Parent
    A True Badge of Honor (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 04:16:02 PM EST
    Jim can't be expected to fight against facts and reason, those teach those things over at Fox.  They teach changing the topic, defaming anyone who might say something you don't like, and spouting patriotic words.

    But he has learned to boast about his 'socially liberal' chops while ranting about about hoodies or mormonism, or something else as spectacularly inane.

    What I don't get, is how much self hatred one must possess to come here to get nothing but beat up and ridiculed.  It, like his words, defies logic.

    How do I get to the 'No Response' declaration, complete with a date ?

    Parent

    Scott, you hold the honors position re (2.00 / 1) (#99)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 05:17:29 PM EST
    facts with you comment on Palin...

    Or have you forgotten that??

    And my positions have been known here since 2003, so don't act like you haven't seen them before... wait you're a new boy.

    And my mission is to learn and enjoy the back and forth of some good debate, although the quality has gone down since you arrived.

    lol

    Parent

    Good Boy Jim (none / 0) (#128)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 09:21:45 AM EST
    Jim can't be expected to fight against facts and reason, those teach those things over at Fox. They teach changing the topic, defaming anyone who might say something you don't like, and spouting patriotic words.

    But he has learned to boast about his 'socially liberal' chops while ranting about about hoodies or mormonism, or something else as spectacularly inane.

    What I don't get, is how much self hatred one must possess to come here to get nothing but beat up and ridiculed.  It, like his words, defies logic.

    How do I get to the 'No Response' declaration, complete with a date ?

    Good boy Jim, Fox would be proud, you changed the topic and never addressed the actual comment.  Is your reply to everything i write going to contain Palin from here on out ?

    And I say it all the time, claiming you are socially liberal doesn't make you socially liberal, especially when you do when taking a socially conservative stand.

    But it does pretty much fall in line with your whole persona here.  But fear not, just mention Palin again Jim, then you won't have to bother actually thinking, save that for the professionals over at Fox.

    Parent

    BTW - looks like you started ... (5.00 / 0) (#65)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:06:11 PM EST
    ... responding again today, so you may want to start the clock over again, Jim.

    Parent
    he called you to let you know (5.00 / 5) (#97)
    by cpinva on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 04:43:15 PM EST
    he's giving you the "silent treatment".

    Parent
    No cpinva (none / 0) (#100)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 05:19:02 PM EST
    I do this periodically to remind others why I don't respond to Yman. I wouldn't everyone think he was factual.

    Parent
    Cmon Jim (none / 0) (#102)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 05:20:05 PM EST
    that was funny. You've seen the commercial right?

    Parent
    Ha (none / 0) (#101)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 05:19:35 PM EST


    Parent
    Ha! (none / 0) (#107)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 05:37:09 PM EST
    Love that one.

    Just in case you haven't seen it, Jen .... err .... Jim.

    Parent

    Love the precision of the numbers in an (none / 0) (#114)
    by ruffian on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:32:10 PM EST
    Off the cuff answer to a question. What a tool.

    What a highly entertaining (none / 0) (#121)
    by lilburro on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:58:29 PM EST
    diary and comment thread.  Reminds me of this week's study on "low-effort thinking" and political conservatism (Mediaite).  Perhaps Fox all these years has actually been a reality show about mostly white alcoholics.  Who knew.

    Joe Scarborough demonstrated (none / 0) (#125)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 08:03:05 AM EST
    what a Republican human being looks like this morning and said that comparing members of Congress to, claiming they are members of, a 20th century movement that was responsible for upward of a 100 million deaths between Pol Pot to Stalin and beyond is unacceptable.  He says West needs to apologize for what he said before anybody gives him one single dime going into the campaign season.  He said it was unacceptable.

    Allen West: 'I Hold In My Hand ... ' A List Of 80 Communist Party Members In The Dem Caucus | 128 comments (128 topical)

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