National Security Official: Spineless Trump Gets Rolled by Turkey

By Jeralyn, Section Trump Administration
Posted on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 07:05:44 PM EST
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Donald Trump wouldn't know a winning hand if it fell in his lap. He is now alienating members of his own party, the military and the world with his decision to pull troops from Syria as Turkey prepares to invade. Via Newsweek:

Donald Trump got "rolled" by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a National Security Council source with direct knowledge of the discussions told Newsweek...

....President Trump was definitely out-negotiated and only endorsed the troop withdraw to make it look like we are getting something—but we are not getting something," the National Security Council source told Newsweek. "The U.S. national security has entered a state of increased danger for decades to come because the president has no spine and that's the bottom line."

On the Syrian Kurds:

Turkey has long considered the Kurdish militia in Syria to be a terrorist insurgency, despite the United States providing military and financial aid to the group in its fight against ISIS, the Islamic State militant group. A battle with the vastly superior military of Turkey, a NATO ally, could drive the Kurds into the arms of Bashar Al-Assad, the Syrian dictator that Washington wants ousted, and by extension into an alliance with Russia and Iran, two U.S. rivals with forces in Syria.

[More...]

To top it off, Trump issues a threat to Turkey, including that he alone will be the arbiter of whether Turkey fights fair:

"As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I've done before!)," said Trump on Twitter Monday.

Is this just another instance of Trump doing something outrageous to deflect attention from his latest onset of troubles? No ones talking impeachment today, it's all about Turkey and the Kurds.

< Monday Open Thread | Rudy's Rendevouz in Vienna >

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National Security Official: Spineless Trump Gets Rolled by Turkey | 75 comments (75 topical)

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n the immortal words of Scooby-Doo: Ruh-Roh! (5.00 / 1) (#22)
by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 10, 2019 at 11:49:23 AM EST

BREAKING: Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, two Soviet-born Florida businessmen who were assisting in Rudy Giuliani's pursuit of Joe Biden, were arrested late Wednesday on federal criminal charges of violating campaign finance law in their efforts to help Trump.

Further, it appears that Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX) is "Congressman 1" in the Parnas-Fruman federal indictment, alleging that he received $3 million from a pro-Trump PAC controlled at least in part by Parnas and Fruman in exchange for his assistance in effecting the recall of the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine last spring. An unnamed Russian oligarch is also mentioned in the indictment.

Still further, NBC News' Pete Williams is reporting that Attorney General William Barr has been aware of SDNY's investigation into Parnas and Fruman since last February, the sort of prior knowledge which may well render his subsequent efforts in August to suppress the whistleblower's complaint legally problematic. He may need to recuse and lawyer up.

It's pretty clear that the State Dept.'s recall of Ambassador Yovanovitch from Ukraine is a potential lynchpin to this mess. If you include the Parnas-Fruman indictment and the White House call transcript, we may well be at the place of convergence where Trump himself is likely implicated in a conspiracy to defraud the United States, if today's charges by SDNY are any indication.

And just like that, our attention returns to the longstanding and vexing issue of Russian influence peddling in GOP World, and its murky connection with both Donald Trump and various Republican congressmen like Pete Sessions.

Fasten your seat belts. We may be teetering on the brink of a spectacular political train wreck unlike any our country has ever experienced. I better make some more popcorn.

Aloha.

: Supposedly (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 10, 2019 at 03:58:22 PM EST

Trump is not paying Rudy. I think it would be very interesting to know who is. And I think we might.

: UPDATE, per Marcy Wheeler: (none / 0) (#23)
by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 10, 2019 at 11:57:24 AM EST

"What the indictment is less clear about is who the Russian bankrolling all this is. A key part of Parnas and Fruman's crime is that they were laundering funds for 'a foreign national Russian citizen and businessman.' Putting together the Dowd letter and the indictment, it becomes clear that the John Solomon propaganda that Trump was pushing (and which Rudy sent to Mike Pompeo's State Department as part of the effort to get rid of Yovanovitch and which Lindsey Graham just invited Rudy to come present to the Senate Judiciary Committee) was funded by an as yet unnamed Russian. It was only a matter of time before Trump was implicated in ConFraudUs with Russia."
LINK.

: Has anybody been keeping count ... (none / 0) (#24)
by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 10, 2019 at 12:08:38 PM EST

... regarding how many times over the past few years White House officials have subsequently had to insist that neither President Trump nor his campaign had anything to do with the conduct that just got some of his political allies indicted?

JUST LIKE I POSTED ABOVE, KURD SELL-OUT WORKING (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by ChiCity on Mon Oct 14, 2019 at 01:24:24 PM EST

great for Putin. Aren't those pictures of dead Kurd babies killed by Turkey's invasion just what the President knew were coming?

And today, we invited ethnic cleansing (5.00 / 2) (#68)
by Towanda on Thu Oct 17, 2019 at 07:39:26 PM EST

and perhaps genocide in coming days for the Kurds, whom we betrayed by surrendering their lands to Turkey. Sickening.

: You wonder when he say things like (none / 0) (#69)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 18, 2019 at 07:28:21 AM EST

"Cleaning out the area" does he understand what he is saying? Is he just so ignorant he is repeating what one of his strongman buddies told him on the phone. Like a child repeating something embarrassing they heard an adult say that was not intended for public usage.
I see light I think up it's far away and we have a lot of scary dark in the way.

Goin our on a limb here (5.00 / 1) (#72)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 18, 2019 at 11:16:32 AM EST

G7 will not be at Doral.

: Bazinga! (5.00 / 1) (#75)
by Chuck0 on Sun Oct 20, 2019 at 07:45:54 AM EST

At Last, Trump Got it Right (1.00 / 1) (#8)
by RickyJim on Tue Oct 08, 2019 at 11:51:37 AM EST

You know about the broken clock. I hope he does the same in Afghanistan soon. An excellent analysis of why the withdrawal is right is here. Please, no ad hominem rebuttals.

Pat Buchanan! (5.00 / 3) (#9)
by Yman on Tue Oct 08, 2019 at 12:10:27 PM EST

Hahahahahahaha ...

Nothing from Rand Paul?


What Else Can You Expect From Yman? (1.00 / 2) (#10)
by RickyJim on Tue Oct 08, 2019 at 12:13:53 PM EST

Well, I know what we ought to expect from you. (5.00 / 5) (#15)
by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 09, 2019 at 01:42:09 PM EST

And in all honesty, that would be offering us something far better to discuss than an "analysis" by the anti-Semitic and racist likes of the sorry-a$$ed right-wing crackpot Pat Buchanan:

"If we do not get control of our borders, by 2050 Americans of European descent will be a minority in the nation their ancestors created and built."
"[T]he decline in academic test scores here at home and in international competition is likely to continue, as more and more of the children taking those tests will be African-American and Hispanic."
"As for a climactic conflict between a once-Christian West and an Islamic world that is growing in numbers and advancing inexorably into Europe for the third time in 14 centuries, on this one, Breivik may be right." (NOTE: Buchanan was referring to Anders Breivik, who murdered 77 people including 69 unarmed teenagers in a mass shooting in Norway.)
"Hitler had never wanted war with Poland, but an alliance with Poland such as he had with Francisco Franco's Spain, Mussolini's Italy, Miklos Horthy's Hungary and Father Jozef Tiso's Slovakia."
"This so-called `Holocaust Survivor Syndrome' involves `group fantasies of martyrdom and heroics.' Reportedly, half of the 20,000 survivor testimonies in Yad Vashem memorial in Jerusalem are considered `unreliable,' not to be used in trials[...]The problem is: Diesel engines do not emit enough carbon monoxide to kill anybody."
"[Adolf Hitler] was also an individual of great courage, a soldier's soldier in the Great War, a leader steeped in the history of Europe, who possessed oratorical powers that could awe even those who despised him[...]His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path."

Please elevate your own game, before you complain about another's. And further, you ought to consider far more carefully your sources of information than you obviously have here in this particular instance. Otherwise, you may be judged by virtue of the intellectual company you choose to keep.

Aloha.


So You Refuse to Read the Referenced Article? (1.00 / 2) (#17)
by RickyJim on Wed Oct 09, 2019 at 06:20:15 PM EST

And what are your criteria for getting the US out of various foreign military entanglements?


: #1 (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 09, 2019 at 07:26:48 PM EST

Ignore Pat Buchanan

: You really and truly don't get it, do you? (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 10, 2019 at 11:25:17 AM EST

Go ask your mother for a dollar, and then buy yourself a clue.

I've Been Getting a Good Laugh (1.00 / 1) (#25)
by RickyJim on Thu Oct 10, 2019 at 12:52:33 PM EST

from you apostles of the Church of Political Correctness. Back in Martin-Zimmerman days, when when Jeralyn was defending Zimmerman and posting references to the Conservativetreehouse website (they make Buchanan look like a liberal), you wouldn't dare go on the attack against her. I am glad to give you guys a safe easy target so you don't have to look for serious counterarguments to the points Buchanan makes.


: Doesn't sound like ... (5.00 / 4) (#26)
by Yman on Thu Oct 10, 2019 at 02:03:03 PM EST

... you're laughing ... just whining like a toddler playing the victim.
Just like Trump.

Maybe Erdowan has (none / 0) (#1)
by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 07:15:01 PM EST

Some good Biden stuff

: Also (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 07:19:49 PM EST

The distraction circus has multiple rings

Trump pulls United States out of military treaty that allows surveillance of Russia: report

: Cheeto has investments (none / 0) (#18)
by MKS on Wed Oct 09, 2019 at 07:12:16 PM EST

in Turkey that need tending to.

"Cry Havoc! (none / 0) (#3)
by desertswine on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 10:06:34 PM EST

and let slip the dogs of war." There will be no peace in this future in that place.

On the plus side (none / 0) (#4)
by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Oct 08, 2019 at 07:51:13 AM EST

It won't be Americans getting shot up.


For now (5.00 / 4) (#5)
by Yman on Tue Oct 08, 2019 at 08:25:27 AM EST

At the moment, it's just our allies who will be left to be massacred, along with our country's reputation/word. The blood price to our country will come later, after the ISIS resurgence and the power vacuum leaves Iran/Putin/Assad time to fill the powder keg.

Congrats to your "very stable genius". His wisdom is unmatched.


Did you have the same prediction (2.00 / 1) (#11)
by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Oct 08, 2019 at 12:14:48 PM EST

when Obama pulled out of Iraq since only the JV was left?


: This is not the first time that (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by desertswine on Tue Oct 08, 2019 at 02:58:44 PM EST

the repugs have left the Kurds to be slaughtered. And this has nothing to do with Obama.

: That's all you can manage? (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by Yman on Wed Oct 09, 2019 at 05:19:40 PM EST

You mean when Obama was required by law to leave Iraq because your boy GW wouldn't/couldn't get a new SOFA with Iraq?
Although I guess we've clearly established that you Republicans couldn't care less about anyone's laws, including our own.

: Looks like it is (none / 0) (#19)
by MKS on Wed Oct 09, 2019 at 07:13:09 PM EST

happening. Not prediction now.

DOESN'T IT SEEM LIKE TRUMP HAS PERFORMED AS A (none / 0) (#6)
by ChiCity on Tue Oct 08, 2019 at 10:16:54 AM EST

RUSSIAN ASSET

Think back to January 2017. What was on Russia's (Putin's) wish list? How many have been realized since Trump was sworn in?

: Russian Asset? (none / 0) (#27)
by KeysDan on Thu Oct 10, 2019 at 03:00:19 PM EST

More likely, a Russian Agent.

Also (none / 0) (#7)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 08, 2019 at 10:29:02 AM EST

China and the f'ing NBA.

NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

Thank whatever gods you pray to.

For for people of Hong Kong and those slow on the autocracy uptake.

: Methinks (none / 0) (#37)
by FlJoe on Mon Oct 14, 2019 at 03:05:35 PM EST

this is a tactical move by the Chinese in the broader trade war.
Virtually nobody would have paid attention to the original tweet had The Chinese made such a stink about it.
Farmers losing their livelihoods didn't seem to get through to tRump, hurting the pocketbook of billionaire NBA owners just might.

I don't see how this (none / 0) (#13)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 09, 2019 at 10:23:54 AM EST

is not a disaster for Trump. For everyone. But definitely for Trump.

: Sure (none / 0) (#14)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 09, 2019 at 10:26:54 AM EST

We are not talking about impeachment - as much - but this is not better

Any country that has entered (none / 0) (#29)
by Chuck0 on Mon Oct 14, 2019 at 10:55:44 AM EST

into any agreement with the US with regard to security of military cooperation should exit that agreement immediately. This includes all members of NATO. The United States is not to be trusted or relied upon. This country will stab you in the back. The US be expelled from NATO until such time as they can be relied upon not to stab allies in the back.

Very sad but way to early to...... (none / 0) (#30)
by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 14, 2019 at 01:17:03 PM EST

Blah blah blah blah.

It's stunning. It really is. The Kurds are now our enemy, who can blame them, joining with Assad.

And Russia is the power broker

You can't make this stuff up. I believe we have, maybe, arrived and the tipping point.


Yes, it really (5.00 / 1) (#32)
by KeysDan on Mon Oct 14, 2019 at 01:42:49 PM EST

Is stunning. We continue to hear about Trump's impulsiveness and incompetence to explain away his incoherent and disastrous foreign policies. Curious, however, how all Trump's acts happen to redound to the benefit of Putin.

So much analysis, so much head-scratching. Media pundits are playing chess but Trump is playing checkers. All out in the open---- follow the money and those Trump tower deals. The FBI opened a counter-intel investigation of the president of the USA. Apparently, still ongoing. My suspicion is along the lines of old-time espionage for big-time personal gain.


take a look at our US State Dept's (5.00 / 1) (#36)
by leap on Mon Oct 14, 2019 at 02:56:24 PM EST

home page.

"We" are a xtian Nation. Imma gonna send this to the ACLU.


Pompeo (5.00 / 1) (#38)
by FlJoe on Mon Oct 14, 2019 at 03:13:19 PM EST

is the really scary one in this whole administration.

IMO, he is the smartest of the bunch and he believes this country should be a de-facto theocracy.


Is Pompeo (none / 0) (#39)
by jondee on Mon Oct 14, 2019 at 03:24:35 PM EST

one of those apocalyptic Rapture people, or is he just another garden-variety ours-is-the-only-true-religion people?


I thought he was a Federalist or Opus Dei, but, (5.00 / 4) (#40)
by leap on Mon Oct 14, 2019 at 04:15:04 PM EST

according to wiki, Pompeo is affiliated with the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. So, he's not Opus Dei. But, of course, means he is a horrible social-being; "...politics is a never-ending struggle ... until the Rapture." I won't list all the offensive, bigoted tenets this guy believes. The usual right-wing, neo-xtian ¢rap. Ugh. He's smart and scary. (First in class at West Point, JD from Hahvahd and was on board of editors of the Hahvahd Law Review and Hahvahd Journal of Law & Public Policy.)


Attorney General (none / 0) (#41)
by KeysDan on Mon Oct 14, 2019 at 04:26:05 PM EST

William Barr is Opus Dei.


: such fine people (none / 0) (#42)
by leap on Mon Oct 14, 2019 at 05:37:31 PM EST

the best.
(upsidedown talk)

: It's not enough that Trump, Barr, et al. ... (none / 0) (#65)
by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 17, 2019 at 06:00:56 PM EST

... make me embarrassed to be a white man. Now, Barr has to also make me ashamed to be a Roman Catholic, too.

In obvious retrospect, ... (none / 0) (#63)
by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 17, 2019 at 01:43:31 PM EST

... how smart was it for Secretary Pompeo to agree to turn over our country's policy on Ukraine to "The Three Amigos," and then allow that now-infamous July 25 phone call with President Zelensky to take place as scripted -- while he was listening in, no less?

If Pompeo is indeed "the smartest of the bunch" as you contend (and I don't disagree with you at this point), then our country is really and truly in a world of Scheiße.

:-(


But, Trump is (none / 0) (#33)
by KeysDan on Mon Oct 14, 2019 at 01:55:30 PM EST

withdrawing our troops and getting out of pesky foreign entanglements. Oh, wait. Trump is sending 2,800 more troops to Saudi Arabia.

Yes. (none / 0) (#34)
by Chuck0 on Mon Oct 14, 2019 at 02:06:31 PM EST

Because KSA was helpful on the beaches of Normandy.


: Apparently (5.00 / 3) (#35)
by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 14, 2019 at 02:39:16 PM EST

those who helped us on the beaches of Normandy need ISIS showing up at their borders and the Kurds that helped us need destroying. We live in a sick backwards upside down world and the GOP just keeps on enabling it. If we live in a just world this should be the end of the GOP. The party should be so toxic that the party has to be shut down or split like when the Whigs went down.

Erdogan unplugged (none / 0) (#43)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 06:36:25 AM EST

Erdogan says Turkey will 'never declare a ceasefire'

And btw he says he will refuse to meet with Pompeo and Pence who are on the way to grovel

He will however (none / 0) (#44)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 06:38:44 AM EST

Meet with Putin.


Apparently Erdie (none / 0) (#45)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 07:42:39 AM EST

Got a phone call and will meet with Pence.


Love to hear the MemCom (none / 0) (#46)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 08:19:30 AM EST

Of THAT call. They probably already packed it into one of Musks giant tickets and fired it into the sun.


: Giant (none / 0) (#47)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 08:40:49 AM EST

ROCKETS

Trump live (none / 0) (#48)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 10:02:14 AM EST

He didn't say that. He didn't say that at all

The thing is, he did.


oh my god (none / 0) (#49)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 10:04:13 AM EST

Another news availability for the ages.


Current situation in Syria for the US is... (none / 0) (#50)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 10:08:09 AM EST

BRILLIANT.

holy hell

Some ISIS fighters were released "for effect"

I don't even know what to say about that.

I need food and pot.


Are you worried about John Bolton (none / 0) (#51)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 10:17:27 AM EST

Oh my

Not going to translate but it will live in history.

"You will see things you don't even believe about corruption"

Seriously


Trump is (none / 0) (#52)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 10:18:14 AM EST

self impeaching


: This (none / 0) (#53)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 10:20:41 AM EST

Is pivotal
I really think so.

Sounds like that would be true (none / 0) (#54)
by Peter G on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 03:08:19 PM EST

That is, if what we "see" is coming from him, I "would not even believe" it.


Schumer, Nancy and Hoyer (5.00 / 1) (#55)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 03:12:07 PM EST

Just walked out of a meeting with Trump because he started screaming insults at them.

The wheels are coming off.


: "All roads with you lead to Putin." (5.00 / 1) (#62)
by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 17, 2019 at 01:34:24 PM EST

Confronting President Trump over his unconscionable decision making on Syria with a damning accusation and pointed finger, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was immortalized by a White House photographer in what has in only 24 hours become an iconic image of our terribly troubled times.

Hall of fame quote of the day (none / 0) (#56)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 03:36:06 PM EST

There's a lot of sand over there they can play with

And (none / 0) (#57)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 03:47:42 PM EST

Its amazing that no matter what his point is Lindsey always manages to sound like an angry 13 girl.

I'll become Trumps worst nightmare


I saw that (5.00 / 1) (#59)
by Ga6thDem on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 05:25:04 PM EST

and thought yeah, right. Trump will call Lindsay and remind him about the Kompromat and Lindsay will all of a sudden be agreeing with what Trump is doing and talking about how wonderful he is.


Then again maybe it's Trumpese (none / 0) (#58)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 at 03:53:22 PM EST

"History... will look upon you forever as the devil if good things don't happen. Don't be a tough guy. Don't be a fool! I will call you later."

Trump letter to Erdogan

Middle school is the new diplomacy


: Erdogan apparently gave Tr*mp's letter the (5.00 / 1) (#61)
by vml68 on Thu Oct 17, 2019 at 09:53:06 AM EST

respect and consideration it deserved!
Turkey's President Erdogan threw Trump's wild letter threatening him over Syria in the trash

: Leaked audio of the letter ;-)! (none / 0) (#60)
by vml68 on Thu Oct 17, 2019 at 09:33:51 AM EST

In his next life, ... (none / 0) (#64)
by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 17, 2019 at 05:56:42 PM EST

... Lindsey Graham will be reincarnated as a yappy, pampered and attention-needy silky terrier lapdog named Boytoy that's owned by a wealthy middle-aged gay male couple who split their time between Manhattan and Palm Springs.

;-D


The thing is (none / 0) (#66)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 17, 2019 at 06:13:50 PM EST

I know those guys.


: Please tell them that ... (none / 0) (#67)
by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 17, 2019 at 06:46:26 PM EST

... they have something to look forward to.

The generals speak (none / 0) (#70)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 18, 2019 at 07:51:24 AM EST

Watch Mattis at the Al Smith dinner

read McRavens OpEd - the Republic is under attack from the president (Paywall)

: In case you think coincidence exists (none / 0) (#71)
by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 18, 2019 at 11:12:40 AM EST

Mattis resigned over Syria policy.

Mike Flynn's sentencing is scheduled for Dec. 18. (none / 0) (#73)
by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Oct 18, 2019 at 01:40:54 PM EST

I can't imagine the recent revelation of Rudy Giuliani's apparent tag-team lobbying effort for the expulsion of Turkish Muslim cleric Fethullah Gülen from the United States is going to reflect well on Flynn in the eyes of Judge Emmet Sullivan, given that the former 3-star general was paid $500,000 by the Turkish government to try and accomplish just that.

The Trumspter fire rages on.

: Gulen lives about 50 miles north (5.00 / 1) (#74)
by Peter G on Fri Oct 18, 2019 at 04:14:23 PM EST

of me. I have Muslim friends who attend services at the Islamic University he founded up there. Went to one of their events once; Turkish exiles, very smart, decent folks. Kind of scary who their enemies are.